I stumbled on this fine gentleman, while writing an article about a type of apple. His work is legend.
Appalachian Apple hunter who rescued 1k ‘lost’ varieties (2021)
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Re: Appalachian Apple hunter who rescued 1k ‘lost’ varieties (2021)
#32Although I appreciate the work folks like Tom Brown do, the notion that he has actually rescued 1000 varieties is a bit of a stretch. An apple variety is only really rescued when it has found a home in commerce and some significant consumer base wants it. Otherwise it's just on life support in a museum, and maybe in a few home orchardists' little collections of trees - it's perpetuation still hanging by a thread. In…
In 1920, there were 23,000 varieties of Apples in the U.S. On U.S.D.A. land, they grow less than 3,500. There are less than 7,600 in the world. The article is misleading. The claim is Mr Brown has rescued more than 1,200 varieties.
The ONLY variety of Apple native to the U.S. is the Crab Apple.
Apples are a $22B industry.
Re: Appalachian Apple hunter who rescued 1k ‘lost’ varieties (2021)
#33Although I appreciate the work folks like Tom Brown do, the notion that he has actually rescued 1000 varieties is a bit of a stretch. An apple variety is only really rescued when it has found a home in commerce and some significant consumer base wants it. Otherwise it's just on life support in a museum, and maybe in a few home orchardists' little collections of trees - it's perpetuation still hanging by a thread. In…
> An apple variety is only really rescued when it has found a home in commerce and some significant consumer base wants it.
This is such a sad viewpoint on the world when biodiversity is valued only if it is commercially exploitable. See other threads on what "home in commerce" really means: optimizing for transportability and uniformity at the expense of flavor and nutrition.
Late to the heirloom party, but this summer a friend offered me a cheese and tomato sandwich from her garden. I originally wasn't interested because tomatoes were always kinda meh for me. But after some encouragement I went for it and after the first bite, I realized I just never actually had a truly juicy and flavorful tomato in my life.
When you say something needs to be commercially successful to be viable, be careful what you're optimizing for. Our commercial agriculture systems don't always optimize for the things you're sold in the slick marketing commercials. There's alternative commerce systems out there, but they look like a farmer's market where you might be surprised by a variety you've never tasted before and might have a few blemishes rather than the scale of a national supermarket where both coasts and everyone in between always gets the same consistent but bland red delicious.
Re: Appalachian Apple hunter who rescued 1k ‘lost’ varieties (2021)
#34Used to walk a neighborhood near where we used to live near downtown. Go down a side street, at the end was a hayfield and a pond! In the middle of town.
And by the pond, an apple tree. With apples the size of cannonballs. Big as your head. Somebody would stack the ones that fell into tripods. It was surreal.
Anyway the place is developed now, the pond gone, the apple tree just a memory.
Re: Appalachian Apple hunter who rescued 1k ‘lost’ varieties (2021)
#35Surely there oughta be better fruits to save. As a generic "fruit hunter" I hate all apples and oranges now, it's like there's no other fruit in the world. Go spread the seed of the ice cream bean fruit and tabo fruit instead.
I remember reading about someone whose passion (perhaps obsession) was rescuing stray dogs in a big city.
People would often ask him why he didn't apply that energy to the homeless. His response, roughly: why don't you? Dogs are his passion.
Volunteer for the activities you're passionate about. And stop sniping at people who are making the world a better place just because you think you know better than they do what's worth saving.
Re: Appalachian Apple hunter who rescued 1k ‘lost’ varieties (2021)
#36Although I appreciate the work folks like Tom Brown do, the notion that he has actually rescued 1000 varieties is a bit of a stretch. An apple variety is only really rescued when it has found a home in commerce and some significant consumer base wants it. Otherwise it's just on life support in a museum, and maybe in a few home orchardists' little collections of trees - it's perpetuation still hanging by a thread. In…
> An apple variety is only really rescued when it has found a home in commerce and some significant consumer base wants it. This is such a sad viewpoint on the world when biodiversity is valued only if it is commercially exploitable. See other threads on what "home in commerce" really means: optimizing for transportability and uniformity at the expense of flavor and nutrition. Late to the heirloom party, but this sum…
> When you say something needs to be commercially successful to be viable, be careful what you're optimizing for.
I'm optimizing for survival. If an apple variety has no market, it won't be eaten or enjoyed (so it becomes at best a museum accession), and in the longer term, it won't be grown, propagated or maintained, and because these things don't live forever, and don't propagate themselves, it will disappear. It doesn't have to have a huge market, it can be regional, or highly specialized; it can even be for nursery trees so people can try to grow it in their back yards. But just like anything that has to be produced (that is, that doesn't just persist on its own), it will disappear if no one is willing to pay for it to be produced.
So, I'm not making a value judgment about commercial vs other, I'm just saying what it takes to keep something alive.
Re: Appalachian Apple hunter who rescued 1k ‘lost’ varieties (2021)
#37Although I appreciate the work folks like Tom Brown do, the notion that he has actually rescued 1000 varieties is a bit of a stretch. An apple variety is only really rescued when it has found a home in commerce and some significant consumer base wants it. Otherwise it's just on life support in a museum, and maybe in a few home orchardists' little collections of trees - it's perpetuation still hanging by a thread. In…
What you're describing sounds more like "revive" or "sustain". Interesting and important next steps, for sure. Saving a variety from imminent destruction is still a "rescue", though.
That's a fair and good correction. My only point is that they are still extremely vulnerable to extinction, unless there is demand for them in the market.
Re: Appalachian Apple hunter who rescued 1k ‘lost’ varieties (2021)
#38Kind of related: in former Eastern Germany they bred all kinds of new Pear varieties. Pears are a little more finicky than apples and the fruit bruise more easily. Furthermore a lot of the varieties will go bad really quickly, so you basically have to eat them from the tree. Because of those reasons there are just one or two varieties available in stores and there is not a lot of commercial interest in Pears. With th…
I hope some of those trees are still around somewhere waiting for someone to find them.
Re: Appalachian Apple hunter who rescued 1k ‘lost’ varieties (2021)
#39Although I appreciate the work folks like Tom Brown do, the notion that he has actually rescued 1000 varieties is a bit of a stretch. An apple variety is only really rescued when it has found a home in commerce and some significant consumer base wants it. Otherwise it's just on life support in a museum, and maybe in a few home orchardists' little collections of trees - it's perpetuation still hanging by a thread. In…
In 1920, there were 23,000 varieties of Apples in the U.S. On U.S.D.A. land, they grow less than 3,500. There are less than 7,600 in the world. The article is misleading. The claim is Mr Brown has rescued more than 1,200 varieties. The ONLY variety of Apple native to the U.S. is the Crab Apple. Apples are a $22B industry.
The Crab Apple you refer to is a species, not a variety. And, to be clear, while there were many, many varieties of apples named and propagated in North America in the eighteenth, nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, almost all of them were of the same, single species.
Re: Appalachian Apple hunter who rescued 1k ‘lost’ varieties (2021)
#40Earlier quoted context omitted.
This comment is as silly as saying you shouldn't grow walnuts because there is watermelon. The fruits you mentioned are not even comparable to apples they are tropical fruits and wouldn't even grow in most parts of the United States. Apples from the grocery store are generally lack-luster compared to varieties that have been grown for flavor instead of shelf life. Apples have many more purposes than eating out of han…
Yup, for the first years of so I lived in the US, I never understood why American (hard) cider tastes so different from French cider, even when you get fancy no-sugar added cider. The answer was that cider is mostly made from table apples instead of cider apples, and they taste completely different!
I've not had French cider, but cider is getting more popular here and there are quite a few styles available. One local cidery has a full range of ciders from sweet to dry and they use a variety of different cider apples. There are even a few cideries that are growing their own seedling apples to use in their cider blends.