What happened with the substation attack in North Carolina? • Hacker News Board

Re: What happened with the substation attack in North Carolina?

#211

Post by wpietri » Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 7:15 PM UTC

htag wrote: post #203

wpietri wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Per Wikipedia there are 55,000 substations in the US. With 800k cops, that in theory gives you not 1:1000, but a 1:15 ratio with cops, so perhaps 5 cops on duty at once if they do nothing else. But a lot of substations are intentionally in wide-open spaces, so shooting them from a distance is very plausible, meaning the cops will have a hard time covering all the space. And that's assuming cops do nothing else. Natio…

> National guard reserves are only another 400k, which does not change the math a ton. It changes the math a ton. Shooting at an unmanned substation is one crime. Shooting in the general direction of the national guard is a completely different type of crime.

I have trouble believing you could not figure this out on your own, but my point is that it does not change the math in terms of having enough people to physically guard each substation. Which was the point I was replying to.

That said, I also think you're wrong in the case being discussed, a group launching a wave of disruption via shooting substations. People engaged in that sort of ideologically driven societal disruption are not going to be put off by exactly which class of felony they'll fall under, as they know they'll be going away for a long, long time regardless, via everything a federal prosecutor can think to charge them with to get the sentence up into the "until you are old" range. Which might not take a lot of work, as "conspiracy to attack energy facilities is punishable by up to 20 years in prison": https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdwa/pr/two-charged-attacks-fou...

Re: What happened with the substation attack in North Carolina?

#212

Post by voakbasda » Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 8:48 PM UTC

SapporoChris wrote: post #174

landemva wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FBI did it to The Branch Davidians when the FBI budget request was being considered. FBI wanted a big story to tell on The Hill, got repulsed, and resorted to gassing everyone and burning the evidence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_siege DOJ concluded that the Branch Davidian's started the fires.

Why do you think that report can be trusted? I think it more likely that they were covering up the FBI’s guilt.

Isn’t it a sad commentary on society that I am willing to believe the innocence of a bunch or wacko cultists than any claims of their guilt by the DoJ or FBI?

Re: What happened with the substation attack in North Carolina?

#213

Post by jonathanlb » Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 8:54 PM UTC

boppo1 wrote: post #186

jonathanlb wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 'white supremacist terrorism' narrative that politicians and alphabet agencies have been trying to sell If white supremacist terrorist attacks are actually happening (and they are), then it's not a fictional narrative that the public is being told. Furthermore, I'm curious how that is linked to the following point. > increases in domestic surveillance/police state infrastructure I'd like to point out that given tha…

From your first article: "hundreds of police officers have been caught posting racist and bigoted social media content" According to Statista[0] there were 660,288 officers in the US in 2021. Even one racist cop is too many, granted. But if we assume the maximum on 'hundreds', 999/660,288 = 0.0015. 0.15% is still a problem, but your article makes it sound like a pervasive problem, which it clearly isn't. That article…

You left the first point unaddressed- that there is a white supremacy problem in the United States, and the fact the people of color are _already_ under police state surveillance.

Secondly, your argument that _only_ 0.15% of cops are racist is disingenuous. If you RTFA [1]:

> Obviously, only a tiny percentage of law enforcement officials are likely to be active members of white supremacist groups. But one doesn’t need access to secretive intelligence gathered in FBI terrorism investigations to find evidence of overt and explicit racism within law enforcement. Since 2000, law enforcement officials with alleged connections to white supremacist groups or far-right militant activities have been exposed in Alabama, California, Connecticut, Florida, Illinois, Louisiana, Michigan, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Oregon, Texas, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia, and elsewhere.

> Research organizations have uncovered hundreds of federal, state, and local law enforcement officials participating in racist, nativist, and sexist social media activity, which demonstrates that overt bias is far too common.

> These officers’ racist activities are often known within their departments, but only result in disciplinary action or termination if they trigger public scandals.

> Few law enforcement agencies have policies that specifically prohibit affiliating with white supremacist groups. Instead, these officers typically face discipline, if at all, for more generally defined prohibitions against conduct detrimental to the department or for violations of anti-discrimination regulations or social media policies. Firings often lead to prolonged litigation, with dismissed officers claiming violations of their First Amendment speech and association rights. Most courts have upheld dismissals of police officers who have affiliated with racist or militant groups, following Supreme ? Court decisions limiting free speech rights for public employees to matters of public concern.

> Courts have given law enforcement agencies even greater latitude to restrict speech and association, citing their “heightened need for order, loyalty, morale and harmony.”

It's fine if you want to bury your head in the sand and pretend the infiltration of law enforcement and military by white supremacists isn't happening, but that won't make it true. Furthermore, your argument that it's all a media conspiracy to enable the government to spy on white people is... sketchy.

[1] https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/hidd...

Re: What happened with the substation attack in North Carolina?

#214

Post by mrtesthah » Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 8:58 PM UTC

lelanthran wrote: post #206

boppo1 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm just very wary of the 'white supremacist terrorism' narrative that politicians and alphabet agencies have been trying to sell lately to justify increases in domestic surveillance/police state infrastructure. And don't get me wrong, I spend plenty of time on 4chan watching this shit, I know there are some truly hateful and dangerous people out there. But It doesn't seem like they're as organized as the narrative w…

> I'm just very wary of the 'white supremacist terrorism' narrative that politicians and alphabet agencies have been trying to sell lately to justify increases in domestic surveillance/police state infrastructure. "OMG Racists!" is the new "Think of the children!" .

I mean sure, as long as you’re a white christian man, why would you ever need to fear violent acts committed by white christian nationalists?

Now if you’re Muslim, Sikh, Jewish, or any other religion, or your skin is dark, or you’re a woman, or you’re gay or trans —- and therefore have legitimate safety concerns… well then that’s just more identity politics, isn’t it?

Re: What happened with the substation attack in North Carolina?

#215

Post by wereallterrrist » Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 8:59 PM UTC

ilyt wrote: post #199

wereallterrrist wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>to sell lately to justify increases in domestic surveillance/police state infrastructure. what evidence or even personal narrative do you have to back this assertion? >But It doesn't seem like they're as organized as the narrative would have us believe phew-boy, I don't have any inside knowledge of this because I have other things that keep my attention, but I'm quite sure that there MIGHT be a bit of a infosec/skil…

> but I'm quite sure that there MIGHT be a bit of a infosec/skill gap between the chuds posting on /b/ and the folks actually rolling out with assault rifles, knowledge, and intent to knock (a) power substation(s) offline. Why? Point a gun at big obvious target doesn't take intelligence and only minimum skill. They don't need to have any knowledge, just shoot the big squarey boxes till the lights go down. Or hell [1]…

Are you uninformed or being disingenuous on purpose regarding these attacks and the nature of them?

Re: What happened with the substation attack in North Carolina?

#216

Post by mc32 » Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 9:44 PM UTC

mrtesthah wrote: post #214

lelanthran wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm just very wary of the 'white supremacist terrorism' narrative that politicians and alphabet agencies have been trying to sell lately to justify increases in domestic surveillance/police state infrastructure. "OMG Racists!" is the new "Think of the children!" .

I mean sure, as long as you’re a white christian man, why would you ever need to fear violent acts committed by white christian nationalists? Now if you’re Muslim, Sikh, Jewish, or any other religion, or your skin is dark, or you’re a woman, or you’re gay or trans —- and therefore have legitimate safety concerns… well then that’s just more identity politics, isn’t it?

The groups listed above have many more enemies than your premise presumes. Even in their traditional homelands; additionally, many of the above are targeted within their own larger ethnic communities.

Further, I don’t recall passing by a church and not seeing a rainbow flag; I cannot say the same for other religious houses of worship except for synagogues which also tend to fly the flag.

Re: What happened with the substation attack in North Carolina?

#217

Post by JasonFruit » Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 10:41 PM UTC

knowaveragejoe wrote: post #149

JasonFruit wrote: post #4

I'm much more interested in the motivations of the people involved.

It's far-right accelerationism. There are those who think "the west has fallen" and the only thing to do now is hasten the collapse of that society so they can build a new one(where they think they'll be on top, for some reason). Google "boogaloo boys" for threads to pull on if you want to learn more.

The boog guys I know are not far-right, nor are they accelerationists. They're mostly socially liberal young vets who are sick of constant wars, creeping tyranny, and the hypocrisy of powerful people, and who are willing to fight back if they're pushed, but most wouldn't start anything. There might be some people like you talk about, or they might be provocateurs, but in either case, they're a small minority.

Re: What happened with the substation attack in North Carolina?

#218

Post by whythre » Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 11:08 PM UTC

SapporoChris wrote: post #173

whythre wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yikes. That’s what we need, a key European breadbasket country poisoned to hell in a needless war.

"Close to the reactor, you would normally receive a dose of about three units - called microsieverts - every hour. But on Thursday, that jumped to 65 microSv/hrs - about five times more than you would get on one transatlantic flight." https://web.archive.org/web/20220225165134/https://www.bbc.c... 65 microSv or 65 µSv is a really trivial amount. It should inspire a yawn not a yikes. https://xkcd.com/radiation/

Doesn’t sound trivial. You go on enough high altitude flights, you will suffer cellular damage- and this dose is occurring daily. Furthermore, this current situation could easily worsen if further damage is done to the nuclear plants.

Re: What happened with the substation attack in North Carolina?

#219

Post by mrtesthah » Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 11:14 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #216

mrtesthah wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean sure, as long as you’re a white christian man, why would you ever need to fear violent acts committed by white christian nationalists? Now if you’re Muslim, Sikh, Jewish, or any other religion, or your skin is dark, or you’re a woman, or you’re gay or trans —- and therefore have legitimate safety concerns… well then that’s just more identity politics, isn’t it?

The groups listed above have many more enemies than your premise presumes. Even in their traditional homelands; additionally, many of the above are targeted within their own larger ethnic communities. Further, I don’t recall passing by a church and not seeing a rainbow flag; I cannot say the same for other religious houses of worship except for synagogues which also tend to fly the flag.

It does not logically follow that gaining a second enemy would necessarily reduce the threat from the first.

I also don't see the connection between your personal anecdotal experience of churches (presumably you live in a major metropolitan area) and white christian nationalists. Are you trying to imply that white christian nationalists are LGBT-friendly? Are you familiar with their beliefs?

Re: What happened with the substation attack in North Carolina?

#220

Post by mrtesthah » Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 11:29 PM UTC

yucky wrote: post #208

panarky wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding the sabotage in Washington State, it doesn't make a lot of sense to attack four substations simultaneously just to steal from the cash register of a small business. If I fancied myself to be an antigovernment militia leader who had read all the white supremacist literature from the last 40 years that repeatedly describes attacking critical infrastructure like pipelines, telecoms and electricity pylons and s…

If US government and it's institutions are rooted in white supremacy as so many claim, then why would white supremacists be anti-government? Seems like they'd be on the same team, no?

Most white supremacists are not in intrinsically anti-government. They are more than happy to support it by becoming police officers, soldiers, and prison guards.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/fbi-white-supremacists-i...