Appalachian Apple hunter who rescued 1k ‘lost’ varieties (2021) • Hacker News Board

Re: Appalachian Apple hunter who rescued 1k ‘lost’ varieties (2021)

#51

Post by ranit » Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 6:58 PM UTC

leipert wrote: post #24

Kind of related: in former Eastern Germany they bred all kinds of new Pear varieties. Pears are a little more finicky than apples and the fruit bruise more easily. Furthermore a lot of the varieties will go bad really quickly, so you basically have to eat them from the tree. Because of those reasons there are just one or two varieties available in stores and there is not a lot of commercial interest in Pears. With th…

> Swiss Orange“. Which is so ironic because there was no access to Switzerland nor good Oranges.

Perhaps this is what made it desirable.

Re: Appalachian Apple hunter who rescued 1k ‘lost’ varieties (2021)

#52

Post by walnutclosefarm » Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 7:04 PM UTC

bagels wrote: post #48

floatrock wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> An apple variety is only really rescued when it has found a home in commerce and some significant consumer base wants it. This is such a sad viewpoint on the world when biodiversity is valued only if it is commercially exploitable. See other threads on what "home in commerce" really means: optimizing for transportability and uniformity at the expense of flavor and nutrition. Late to the heirloom party, but this sum…

Are apples one of those plants that require grafting to be true to type?

Yes.

Re: Appalachian Apple hunter who rescued 1k ‘lost’ varieties (2021)

#53

Post by dang » Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 7:09 PM UTC

7k varieties of apples and the 18 you need to know about (2013) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29761351 - Jan 2022 (60 comments)

New variety of apple discovered by Wiltshire runner - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25236672 - Nov 2020 (37 comments)

Pioneer-era apple types thought extinct found in US West - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22963226 - April 2020 (54 comments)

Lost Apple Project - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22918261 - April 2020 (5 comments)

Documenting every apple variety in North America - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20324355 - July 2019 (5 comments)

Also related (i.e. about apples -computer):

Apple Rankings - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33639206 - Nov 2022 (462 comments)

The best apples for apple pie - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32966751 - Sept 2022 (60 comments)

Red delicious apples weren’t always horrible - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28032226 - Aug 2021 (250 comments)

The Awful Reign of the Red Delicious (2014) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26055724 - Feb 2021 (84 comments)

Around the World in Rare and Beautiful Apples - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21977622 - Jan 2020 (48 comments)

Cosmic Crisp Apple Launch - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20481026 - July 2019 (97 comments)

The Curse of the Honeycrisp Apple - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18415216 - Nov 2018 (96 comments)

7,000 varieties of apples and the 18 you actually need to know about - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16511886 - March 2018 (5 comments)

250 varieties of apple on one tree (2013) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15274944 - Sept 2017 (4 comments)

How we got apples that taste delicious (2015) [audio] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14527798 - June 2017 (18 comments)

The Awful Reign of the Red Delicious (2014) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14349964 - May 2017 (169 comments)

The Awful Reign of the Red Delicious - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8300619 - Sept 2014 (142 comments)

Did I miss any? I used some search tricks to find these so it would be interestined if there are others.

Re: Appalachian Apple hunter who rescued 1k ‘lost’ varieties (2021)

#54

Post by RosanaAnaDana » Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 7:12 PM UTC

throwawaygal7 wrote: post #41

floatrock wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> An apple variety is only really rescued when it has found a home in commerce and some significant consumer base wants it. This is such a sad viewpoint on the world when biodiversity is valued only if it is commercially exploitable. See other threads on what "home in commerce" really means: optimizing for transportability and uniformity at the expense of flavor and nutrition. Late to the heirloom party, but this sum…

Saving heirloom apples has zero biodiversity value, or near two it. All domestic apples are extremely inbred and from a one or two cultivars brought to Europe a few hundred years back. The reservoir of apple biodiversity , at least for sylvestris is in its native range where domestic apple cultivation is actively polluting the genome. I think that's like khazakhastan and western china.

To add to this, any seeds from wild pollination will result in new 'varieties'my

It's trivial to regain diversity from this species, and it's not like apple is on the edge of survival.

Re: Appalachian Apple hunter who rescued 1k ‘lost’ varieties (2021)

#55

Post by walnutclosefarm » Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 7:15 PM UTC

nkurz wrote: post #42

walnutclosefarm wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Bred out" is a bit of a misnomer here. Apples varieties are propagated clonally through grafting. However, each new cloned tree originates from a single twig of a previous tree, and that twig originates from a single cell of the donor tree. Since cell division is not a perfect process, point mutations can accumulate over the generations from this process. In the case of Red Delicious, selections of point mutations (…

> Not my favorite apple of the 30 or so in my orchard Great answers throughout this thread. But this comment raises the obvious question: then which one is your favorite? (my answer is usually Wickson Crab: https://www.orangepippin.com/varieties/crab-apples/wickson-c... )

Depends of course on the use to which I'm putting the apple. If I had to reduce to a single variety in the orchard, I'd probably grow Liberty (not an heirloom, but rather a university-bred disease resistant variety created in the 1950s). Great eating fresh off the tree (if, like me, you like a tart, but not overly tannic, crisp eater), makes great dried apples, and decent unfermented juice. I would choose Honeycrisp (an even younger variety) over Liberty, if it weren't so damned hard to grow well. For keepers, I'd go with Black Oxford. For pies, it's hard to beat Beacon or Charlamoff (which is known by at least a dozen different names that are all somehow or other derived from Charlemagne, or Carolingian). I also like Calville Blanc for pies.

Re: Appalachian Apple hunter who rescued 1k ‘lost’ varieties (2021)

#56

Post by _a_a_a_ » Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 7:28 PM UTC

seszett wrote: post #50

_a_a_a_ wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As you seem to know something about this, what's an apple/pear hybrid like? I assume they do hybridise. How about pear/quince? That should be an interesting one.

They don't hybridise as far as I know, or don't give anything long-lived. An interesting hybrid though is x Sorbopyrus, a cross between a pear and sorb tree.

Never heard of it so for others https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shipova

Can't cross with an apple but can with a whitebeam, I wouldn't have believed it. Amazing, thanks.

Re: Appalachian Apple hunter who rescued 1k ‘lost’ varieties (2021)

#57

Post by nkurz » Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 7:28 PM UTC

seszett wrote: post #50

_a_a_a_ wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As you seem to know something about this, what's an apple/pear hybrid like? I assume they do hybridise. How about pear/quince? That should be an interesting one.

They don't hybridise as far as I know, or don't give anything long-lived. An interesting hybrid though is x Sorbopyrus, a cross between a pear and sorb tree.

There are some apple-pear hybrids that produce fruit. Development work seems ongoing in Germany. Unfortunately for me as (mostly) an English speaker, most of the papers describing it are in German. Here's a summary of an abstract in English, though: https://agris.fao.org/agris-search/search.do?recordID=US2014.... If you search for the primary author plus some keywords (Thilo Fischer Apfel Birne) you can find articles that give more details.

I'm guessing the Sorbopyrus you are describing is the Shipova: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shipova. It's a surprisingly old hybrid. I've got one growing, but haven't gotten any fruit yet. Have you eaten it?

Re: Appalachian Apple hunter who rescued 1k ‘lost’ varieties (2021)

#58

Post by leipert » Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 7:44 PM UTC

ranit wrote: post #51

leipert wrote: post #24

Kind of related: in former Eastern Germany they bred all kinds of new Pear varieties. Pears are a little more finicky than apples and the fruit bruise more easily. Furthermore a lot of the varieties will go bad really quickly, so you basically have to eat them from the tree. Because of those reasons there are just one or two varieties available in stores and there is not a lot of commercial interest in Pears. With th…

> Swiss Orange“. Which is so ironic because there was no access to Switzerland nor good Oranges. Perhaps this is what made it desirable.

It’s a pretty good Apple as well. Very crisp and more fresh-sour after harvest and becomes more sweet when stored for a few weeks.

And I stand corrected, it actually is Swiss and was created in 1935: https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schweizer_Orangenapfel

Re: Appalachian Apple hunter who rescued 1k ‘lost’ varieties (2021)

#59

Post by leipert » Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 7:47 PM UTC

_a_a_a_ wrote: post #43

leipert wrote: post #24

Kind of related: in former Eastern Germany they bred all kinds of new Pear varieties. Pears are a little more finicky than apples and the fruit bruise more easily. Furthermore a lot of the varieties will go bad really quickly, so you basically have to eat them from the tree. Because of those reasons there are just one or two varieties available in stores and there is not a lot of commercial interest in Pears. With th…

As you seem to know something about this, what's an apple/pear hybrid like? I assume they do hybridise. How about pear/quince? That should be an interesting one.

Not that knowledgeable. We just wanted to plant a pear tree when our kid was born. The tree seller was very chatty and knowledgeable.

You also need to plant pears in pairs in order for them to pollinate each other. There are tables with which varieties go well with each other.

Re: Appalachian Apple hunter who rescued 1k ‘lost’ varieties (2021)

#60

Post by leipert » Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 7:51 PM UTC

6177c40f wrote: post #38

leipert wrote: post #24

Kind of related: in former Eastern Germany they bred all kinds of new Pear varieties. Pears are a little more finicky than apples and the fruit bruise more easily. Furthermore a lot of the varieties will go bad really quickly, so you basically have to eat them from the tree. Because of those reasons there are just one or two varieties available in stores and there is not a lot of commercial interest in Pears. With th…

I hope some of those trees are still around somewhere waiting for someone to find them.

Ah yeah, there are still cultivars of the old breeds, but the problem is that without new breeds being created, we are not combatting the challenges of climate change and diseases changing.