Live data from Hacker News

AI is in danger of being swallowed up by copyright law

heathermeeker.com

381–390 of 705 posts

Re: AI is in danger of being swallowed up by copyright law

#381
post #60

> [...] and also, for software authors, prohibiting ML training would be antithetical to the Open Source Definition. So that probably won’t work. Of course. As an author of OSS, I'm more than happy to let your AI "learn" from my code as long as the trained model is released under a GPL compatible license.

This author really does not know two shits what they're talking about. Surprising this whole post isn't flagged. If your AI software is vomiting derivative works stripped of their original license, provided the license even allows derivative works, then yes, you need to lawyer up.

This AI boom feels very similar to that of crypto/Web 3.0 of a few years ago. Wouldn’t be surprised if the same people are behind the current AI/ML hype.

Re: AI is in danger of being swallowed up by copyright law

#382
post #121

There's no part of AI that is being swallowed up by copyright. AI companies can ask for permission if they want to train their models on other people's works. It's not that hard, various image hosting sites have already added an opt-in/opt-out toggle to their services. Sites might even get away with using this stuff as compensation for free hosting. The fact of the matter is that the AI companies don't want to ask fo…

AI companies can ask for permission if they want to train their models on other people's works Do you ask for permission when you train your mind on copyrighted books? Or observe paintings? Or listen to music? Do you ask for permission when you get new ideas from HN that aren't your own? Humans are constantly ingesting gobs of "copyrighted" insights that they eventually remix into their own creations without necessar…

> Do you ask for permission when you train your mind on copyrighted books? Or observe paintings? Or listen to music?

Yes, that’s exactly what happens when you buy a book, or pay for a music subscription. The work is in the public domain, then global permission to observe and copy the work is already granted.

> Do you ask for permission when you get new ideas from HN that aren't your own?

You don’t need to. It’s implicitly assumed, by virtue of publishing in a public forum, that the author is providing permission for people read their comments and ideas, and remix them as they wish. That permission doesn’t include exact replication, but reading and understanding is assumed, otherwise why did the author publish it?

> Humans are constantly ingesting gobs of "copyrighted" insights that they eventually remix into their own creations without necessarily reimbursing the original source(s) of their creativity.

Correct. Literally everything produced by a human is automatically copyrighted. But the manner in which work is published creates implicit licenses for the public to consume those works. You publish in public, you automatically grate licenses for the public to consume and transform it.

If a human transforms an idea, it automatically becomes a new idea with its own copyright. The same doesn’t apply to AI because they’re not human, and thus the law generally doesn’t recognise them an having ability to create or transform ideas. If you believe AI can create and transform ideas, then you need lobby for the law to recognise that ability, but right now, only natural humans have that ability according to the law

Re: AI is in danger of being swallowed up by copyright law

#383
post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you pirate a book, learn from it and then create something using the information you learned, would that creation constitute copyright infringement? If so how far does the tainting go? Once you put your eyes on something which you haven't purchased, all future works could potentially be inspired by that experience and should therefore be considered infringement, following your logic.

We are not dealing with AGI here. Current trained models are basically just using copy and paste, to create "new" works. There is zero creativity, zero art, zero original thought, zero newness. When actual AGI happens, then your arguments mean something. Such as in, at least 50 or 100 years down the road.

Your statement here is simply ignorance. Generative models do not only provide “copy paste”, they can interpolate and extrapolate from training data. When a human sees a bunch of ideas and mixes them up to produce something slightly different it doesn’t bother anyone. But when a human creates an AI and uses it to do something similar suddenly it’s a problem. I think the burden of proof is on the laypeople here that keep whining about how AI is just copy paste (which is simply not true and such a base simplification it wouldn’t even pass a ELI5 truthfulness test). I’m sure this will get downvotes plenty.

Re: AI is in danger of being swallowed up by copyright law

#387
post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. An AI has a training set of one image and produces an exact replica. 2. An AI has a training set of every image in the world and produces an entirely unique work. Which do you have more of a problem with?

#2 is pretty interesting. After all, the purpose of copyright law is to encourage creative works. If we have machines that can generate creative works on demand with little effort, what purpose does copyright law serve?

I am not a lawyer, so the following is only my opinion.

Copyright law serves the purpose of peoples works being protected from unauthorized parties making copies of their works, and profiting off them.

It doesn't protect from technology making the production of new works cheaper, faster, more efficient. An artist using photoshop can be, and is allowed to be, many times faster than one using oil and canvas.

Re: AI is in danger of being swallowed up by copyright law

#388
post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the uncomfortable truth that no one on that side of the argument wants to address. Also, the fact that Artistic Freedom is now under attack by artists. Not that long ago Artists hated the Music Industry and Corporations such as Disney for weaponizing Copyright law against Artistic Freedom. Now artists are utilizing that same tactic against other artists. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artistic_freedom

It's just humans being humans. Some years ago microsoft was using FUD against Linux. Now linux users are using FUD against microsoft.

My fire department is spreading FUD about forgetting to blow out candles.

What is your point? If "Linux users" are right it is not FUD or the concept of "FUD" is pointless.

Re: AI is in danger of being swallowed up by copyright law

#389
post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like your country is the weird one. Try burning the complete works of Disney onto stacks of DVDs, then go down to your high street and hand them out. See how long you get away with that for.

Unless I do like millions of them, literally nothing would happen.

Do you think they would act much faster if you charged a dollar or five? I don't.

Re: AI is in danger of being swallowed up by copyright law

#390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this about jealousy then? Or it’s just too fast so let’s stop it?

It's about a law designed by humans to give everyone a chance to make a living and contribute to the common good. You think you have found a loophole in that law that lets you use that work for free and deny author's any compensation. Bear in mind, AI is not making artists or creative types obsolete - that would be fair game, just like computers made human calculators obsolete. No, this is about abusing other people'…

I’m not seeing a salient argument here. Something about an allegation of abuse?

Where is the abuse happening?

Post reply on HN