Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is my understanding that it makes no legal difference (at least in my country) whether I charge for my work or not when it infringes somebody's copyright. Simply sharing it is sufficient to get into trouble.
I don't know from which weird country you're from, but in mine profiting from it changes things a lot.
AI is in danger of being swallowed up by copyright law
221–230 of 705 posts
Re: AI is in danger of being swallowed up by copyright law
#222There's no part of AI that is being swallowed up by copyright. AI companies can ask for permission if they want to train their models on other people's works. It's not that hard, various image hosting sites have already added an opt-in/opt-out toggle to their services. Sites might even get away with using this stuff as compensation for free hosting. The fact of the matter is that the AI companies don't want to ask fo…
What the customers of AI want is accurate predictions of the models, and they can get that even if everyone demanding to get removed from the training set would be removed.
The makers of generative AI could remove every living artist who wants to from the dataset, the model would still develop a general solution of color theory, composition, almost every artstyle in existence, ... because fact of the matter is, there is just that much data out there. Our species collectively has spend DECADES recording, storing and categorizing everything and the proverbial kitchen sink. There are god-knows-how-many petabytes of data available in images alone, so even if just 1% of that could be used to train generative models, it would still be more than adequate.
And soon after that, there is an explosion of new generated art, filtered through the aesthetic sense of millions of humans, that can just be fed back into the models, to make them better.
The end result is the same: High-quality image generation on a scale hitherto unseen, running even on consumer grade hardware. And what lawsuits will be filed then?
Re: AI is in danger of being swallowed up by copyright law
#223If its an image editor everyone is calm, but call it AI everyone loses their minds.
Re: AI is in danger of being swallowed up by copyright law
#224US copyright law only applies in the US. AI can be developed outside of the US where other laws apply. So, the US using the straight jacket of copyright law to stifle innovation would only cause AI companies to move their business; or non US companies stepping up. I don't think that's actually going to happen though. The stakes are too high for that and this case seems quite weak. Copyright law has its limitations. B…
This isn't entirely true, due to various entangled trade agreements that require countries to respect each other's intellectual property as a prerequisite.
Re: AI is in danger of being swallowed up by copyright law
#225Earlier quoted context omitted.
I can instruct an AI to draw Mickey Mouse and infringe copyright and I can instruct a child to draw Mickey Mouse and infringe copyright.
And when you try and sell that work without attribution or compensation then there is a problem.
Re: AI is in danger of being swallowed up by copyright law
#226It doesn’t solve attribution, and you could get a sufficiently advanced ai to “launder” copyright but at least it would prevent those corporations from leveraging public works into copyrighted projects
Re: AI is in danger of being swallowed up by copyright law
#227Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s strange to me that there’s a lot of overlap between people who think AI training should require explicit consent for every piece of training data, and people who think copyright and patents are insanely restrictive in the music/movies/literature/software world. It’s also worrying that requiring consent to train an AI model will inevitably lead to requiring consent to make handmade art that’s a little too similar…
It's probably those same people who publish their code under open source licenses instead of giving it to the public domain. I don't understand why people cling so hard onto every worthless little bit of code they write while also sort of half giving it away to almost everyone for almost any purpose.
Then, a lot of open source authors understand that their works are not groundbraking inventions and want to share them with the world without any fees or costs. And others have groundbraking inventions and still share them for free with the world.
But there are almost always license terms attached to the piece of the work. They can be essentially non-limiting, like public domain or MIT. But they can also enforce some minimal requirements like attribution. Why should any entity, especially huge corporations, not be bound to those conditions? It was mostly those corporations which created a restrictive copyright. Try to draw an image of Micky Mouse and put it on your website and see what happens.
Re: AI is in danger of being swallowed up by copyright law
#228Earlier quoted context omitted.
> “Do you ask for permission when you train your mind on copyrighted books?” I’m not able to read billions of books in less than an hour. Even if we agree that machine learning is like human learning, scale commonly matters in law.
I’m not able to read billions of books in less than an hour. I think you underestimate the sheer volume of data + conclusions the brain ingests and processes on a daily basis, primarily through unconscious experience.
Re: AI is in danger of being swallowed up by copyright law
#229My only hope is that somehow generative art, code, and all other media can somehow benefit the little guy rather than continuing to enrich the largest and most powerful, however unlikely it seems.
Re: AI is in danger of being swallowed up by copyright law
#230Earlier quoted context omitted.
AI companies can ask for permission if they want to train their models on other people's works Do you ask for permission when you train your mind on copyrighted books? Or observe paintings? Or listen to music? Do you ask for permission when you get new ideas from HN that aren't your own? Humans are constantly ingesting gobs of "copyrighted" insights that they eventually remix into their own creations without necessar…
thanks for sending your strawman in to do battle with his strawman. you don't need permission to train on books, but you do need to buy the books or take them from the library one at a time. "training" these machines so far is not like human learning as becomes apparent when they spit out source code that mirrors individual repositories. And you know that humans are required to both remix their own creations and foll…
That's not a problem, we already have copyright laws that prevent people from distributing mirrors of copyrighted works. They don't care about how the works were copied.