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Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why should we push down wealthy people just because the poor have it worse? Would it not be better to focus on improving the conditions of the poor?
Because the rich won’t have any incentive to change the system otherwise.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I assume you're unfamiliar with the British system, where it's not unusual for people who can't afford bail to be jailed for years before their case even comes to trial. Does the US not operate in the same way? Is it not the case that rich people can hire expensive lawyers at every stage of the process while poor people can't? Clearly the size a bank account is very relevant indeed.
It doesn't sound like you're familiar with the UK system either. Bail in the UK means adherence to specific conditions, i.e. live somewhere the police can find you, stay away from the victim and don't leave the country. It doesn't involve cash changing hands. If you've done something very bad, or are a big flight risk you will not be granted bail, but again, not a money issue. The person you're responding to is refer…
I’ve had to hand over money to get a friend out after he was arrested due to an extradition request.
> If you've done something very bad, or are a big flight risk you will not be granted bail, but again, not a money issue
It absolutely is a money issue. The bigger surety you can put up, the less those things matter.
Interesting to me that the Venn diagram of the group of people who want "prison reform" and an end to overincarceration and the group of people who want Holmes locked up with the key thrown away is basically a perfect circle. Is Holmes such an imminent danger to society that she needs locked up and cordoned off from our communities?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why should we push down wealthy people just because the poor have it worse? Would it not be better to focus on improving the conditions of the poor?
Conservative commentators everywhere would no doubt be delighted at the suggestion that all poor people should wait out an appeal in a $13k/mth mansion.
Interesting to me that the Venn diagram of the group of people who want "prison reform" and an end to overincarceration and the group of people who want Holmes locked up with the key thrown away is basically a perfect circle. Is Holmes such an imminent danger to society that she needs locked up and cordoned off from our communities?
Secondly, those positions are not mutually exclusive or even intellectually inconsistent. You can think there are too many people in jail general (eg for certain crimes and certain groups in society) and still think that for certain specific cases, jail is appropriate.
Thirdly, as a sibling has pointed out, protection of society is not the only or even the primary reason a jail sentence might be appropriate in a given case. I believe prosecutors believe flight risk is the primary reason jail is appropriate in this case, at least partly because her partner bought a ticket to Mexico in January for her which was only cancelled after the government intervened.[1] Her counsel said it was in expectation of being found not guilty so she was able to attend a friend's wedding but the bummer for that theory is that it was a one-way ticket.
[1] https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/elizabeth-hol...
Good. Send her to prison, where she belongs.
I think they should send her to prison, but conditionally release her for 48 hours so that she can help to solve a crime.
> there is one criminal justice system in this country. That's an illusion. There's almost no wealthy criminal that sees the walls of a prison - and if they do, they find ways to get out very quickly thanks to their connections.
I wanted to say, this is a point one could try to argue in countries where e.g. the fine for speed tickets is proportional to the income, but in the US there is just a lack of hard evidence to support that statement (and a lot of evidence that supports the opposite of the statment). The way I perceive it the US justice system is too prone to be toyed around with by people with money. A lot of the stuff people pull of…
Under our peculiar pay-to-play “cash bail” system, it only applies to those who can afford the fee.
For the rest of the people it’s very much the opposite: stay imprisoned (and lose your job etc) until not proven guilty.
To avoid this, many people take a loan from a “bail bondsman” that comes with a service fee of around 10% of the bail —- which might easily be tens of thousands of dollars and leave a poor person in crippling debt for years or forever — regardless of guilt.
Interesting to me that the Venn diagram of the group of people who want "prison reform" and an end to overincarceration and the group of people who want Holmes locked up with the key thrown away is basically a perfect circle. Is Holmes such an imminent danger to society that she needs locked up and cordoned off from our communities?
Good. Send her to prison, where she belongs.
It's actually not good. It is totally legal to appeal a conviction. The size of a bank account is not a measurement in this. Stranger is US law in general, where the outcome of convictions depends on the emotional stability of a judge and the thoughts of a jury. Law is an emotional process in the US. In Europe there are no emotions involved in the sentencing. I think this reflects the responds like "Send her to priso…
> It is totally legal to appeal a conviction.