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Holmes Belongs in Prison, Not $13,000-a-Month Manor, US Says

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Re: Holmes Belongs in Prison, Not $13,000-a-Month Manor, US Says

#11

Post by gizmo »

lfodofod wrote: post #10
RansomStark wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is an appeal, so let's see if she really belongs there. I think you're missing the point, yes it is legal for anyone to appeal a conviction. In the US (and I assume most of the rest of the world) that is dependent on your ability to pay a lawyer to do that for you and your likely outcome is impacted by the price you are able to pay for that lawyer. The other point is, this is a conversation about a two tier j…

Why should we push down wealthy people just because the poor have it worse? Would it not be better to focus on improving the conditions of the poor?

Because the rich won’t have any incentive to change the system otherwise.

Re: Holmes Belongs in Prison, Not $13,000-a-Month Manor, US Says

#12

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

lfodofod wrote: post #10
RansomStark wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is an appeal, so let's see if she really belongs there. I think you're missing the point, yes it is legal for anyone to appeal a conviction. In the US (and I assume most of the rest of the world) that is dependent on your ability to pay a lawyer to do that for you and your likely outcome is impacted by the price you are able to pay for that lawyer. The other point is, this is a conversation about a two tier j…

Why should we push down wealthy people just because the poor have it worse? Would it not be better to focus on improving the conditions of the poor?

Conservative commentators everywhere would no doubt be delighted at the suggestion that all poor people should wait out an appeal in a $13k/mth mansion.

Re: Holmes Belongs in Prison, Not $13,000-a-Month Manor, US Says

#13

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

decide1000 wrote: post #6
zapdrive wrote: post #3

Good. Send her to prison, where she belongs.

It's actually not good. It is totally legal to appeal a conviction. The size of a bank account is not a measurement in this. Stranger is US law in general, where the outcome of convictions depends on the emotional stability of a judge and the thoughts of a jury. Law is an emotional process in the US. In Europe there are no emotions involved in the sentencing. I think this reflects the responds like "Send her to priso…

I assume you're unfamiliar with the British system, where it's not unusual for people who can't afford bail to be jailed for years before their case even comes to trial.

Does the US not operate in the same way? Is it not the case that rich people can hire expensive lawyers at every stage of the process while poor people can't?

Clearly the size a bank account is very relevant indeed.

Re: Holmes Belongs in Prison, Not $13,000-a-Month Manor, US Says

#14

Post by atoav »

ekianjo wrote: post #7

> there is one criminal justice system in this country. That's an illusion. There's almost no wealthy criminal that sees the walls of a prison - and if they do, they find ways to get out very quickly thanks to their connections.

I wanted to say, this is a point one could try to argue in countries where e.g. the fine for speed tickets is proportional to the income, but in the US there is just a lack of hard evidence to support that statement (and a lot of evidence that supports the opposite of the statment).

The way I perceive it the US justice system is too prone to be toyed around with by people with money. A lot of the stuff people pull off in the US would land you in contempt of court if you just tried it elsewhere on the world.

Innocent until proven guily, I get all of that, but what money factually buys you in the US is ridiculous

Re: Holmes Belongs in Prison, Not $13,000-a-Month Manor, US Says

#15

Post by stu432 »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #13
decide1000 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually not good. It is totally legal to appeal a conviction. The size of a bank account is not a measurement in this. Stranger is US law in general, where the outcome of convictions depends on the emotional stability of a judge and the thoughts of a jury. Law is an emotional process in the US. In Europe there are no emotions involved in the sentencing. I think this reflects the responds like "Send her to priso…

I assume you're unfamiliar with the British system, where it's not unusual for people who can't afford bail to be jailed for years before their case even comes to trial. Does the US not operate in the same way? Is it not the case that rich people can hire expensive lawyers at every stage of the process while poor people can't? Clearly the size a bank account is very relevant indeed.

It doesn't sound like you're familiar with the UK system either. Bail in the UK means adherence to specific conditions, i.e. live somewhere the police can find you, stay away from the victim and don't leave the country. It doesn't involve cash changing hands. If you've done something very bad, or are a big flight risk you will not be granted bail, but again, not a money issue.

The person you're responding to is referencing that sentencing is done by a judge who is supposed to be more objective when determining sentence, as opposed to emotional juries who simply determine if they are guilty or not of accused crimes.

Re: Holmes Belongs in Prison, Not $13,000-a-Month Manor, US Says

#20

Post by missedthecue »

Interesting to me that the Venn diagram of the group of people who want "prison reform" and an end to overincarceration and the group of people who want Holmes locked up with the key thrown away is basically a perfect circle.

Is Holmes such an imminent danger to society that she needs locked up and cordoned off from our communities?

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