What not to write on your security clearance form (1988) • Hacker News Board

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#471

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 4:40 AM UTC

naniwaduni wrote: post #450

notch656c wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> somebody who actually has a guilty conscience. If working for a murderous government that sends drones to bomb kids overseas, invade vietnam and iraq, imprisons innocuous non-violent offenders for decades, funds nun-raping militias in central america, etc doesn't give one a guilty conscious I honestly have no idea what would. It's got to make you feel far more guilty than whether you put on a form you grew a bad pl…

> etc doesn't give one a guilty conscious I honestly have no idea what would. Most people care a fuck of a lot more about things that are close to them than things that are far, far away. If you're wondering in good faith and not just trying to score stupid political points, all I can say is, uh, strongly recommend you Log Off.

[deleted]

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#472

Post by stephen_g » Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 4:41 AM UTC

cfeduke wrote: post #395

anthomtb wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My first clearance interview, about 10 years ago, it was all going along just fine. I had the standard litany of "bad" things any early 20-something American guy gets into - a few mushroom trips, an alcohol ticket, friends from foreign countries. No deal-breakers so long as you are honest and I answered honestly. The only stumbling block came when the interviewer asked "have you smoked marijuana?". I truthfully answe…

I had a somewhat similar experience with the polygraph portion of my clearance process - apparently its common to calibrate the machine to the subject by asking "have you ever smoked marijuana" and they expect you to lie and say "no" but then sometimes people have never smoked marijuana.

The polygraph is 100% pseudoscience - at best it's a prop to make interrogating people that don't know it's fake easier because they believe the interrogator can read their mind, but it falls apart when the person being taken knows that it's woo. So we shouldn't really use technical/scientific terms like "calibration" when talking about it...

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#473

Post by stephen_g » Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 4:48 AM UTC

cardiffspaceman wrote: post #413

walrus01 wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'have you ever been kidnapped' is a different question than 'have you ever been arrested', I suppose.

So in context, they ask if you've been arrested, you say no. But this is because you characterize an incident as unlawful, while others characterize it as a lawful arrest.

Surely the answer for the example is "I was falsely arrested because I refused to pay a bribe". Since paying bribes is illegal in most countries, that shouldn't be an issue and you can't be accused of concealing it if it came up later.

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#474

Post by stephen_g » Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 4:52 AM UTC

Symmetry wrote: post #225

robcohen wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Police typically have a 5 year period they want for zero drug involvement. The military is more dependent on the position and clearance level, but the max limit numbers are arbitrarily set. They set the numbers high enough to make recruiting possible, but it isn’t based off of any science.

I meant that lying was more acceptable on police applications because police, in the course of their duties, often have to lie whether its telling a suspect that you have proof of their guilt and they just need to confess or using boilerplate language like "there was a strong smell of marijuana" to justify a search in the paperwork whether you smelled anything or not.

What do you mean "have to lie"? Such lies really should be illegal for police...

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#475

Post by stephen_g » Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 5:00 AM UTC

51Cards wrote: post #317

Bit of an aside story but I'm in the process of renewing a US work Visa (travel into the US for work often from Canada). I was reminded going through the online form last week that there are 3 full pages of questions like: "Have you ever participated in child trafficing?", "Have you participated in terrorist activities?", "Have you participated in overthrowing a government?", etc. etc. All of the most extreme interna…

Coming from Australia, you have to answer a small selection of those questions (including those ones) on the visa waiver application just to travel to the US for a holiday or business trip.

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#476

Post by wkat4242 » Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 5:56 AM UTC

anthomtb wrote: post #249

technothrasher wrote: post #67

"Here, fill it out again and don't mention that." I had the exact same experience when applying for a clearance while I was in college, for the "have you taken illegal drugs" question. When I honestly answered yes, the interviewer got fidgety and then asked, "well do you take them now?" no. "Do you know any drug users?" We're on a college campus, what would you like me to say? "Well, are you friends with any of them?…

My first clearance interview, about 10 years ago, it was all going along just fine. I had the standard litany of "bad" things any early 20-something American guy gets into - a few mushroom trips, an alcohol ticket, friends from foreign countries. No deal-breakers so long as you are honest and I answered honestly. The only stumbling block came when the interviewer asked "have you smoked marijuana?". I truthfully answe…

I don't understand why the US is so full on about marijuana. I've heard this is a major thing in federalinterviews but other much more scary drugs are not.

What's the hangup with this particular drug that's actually legal in many states?

Ps: I've been asked that question too in less formal settings and I always truthfully say no which does raise some eyebrows as I'm Dutch :) But I've really never done it. Not counting all the second hand smoke around me though.

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#477

Post by wkat4242 » Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 6:07 AM UTC

int_19h wrote: post #447

notch656c wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's my understanding that same law about the joint still applies just for having an otherwise lawful firearm in the safe doing nothing. Disclaimer: not legal advice, for entertainment value only.

You're correct. In fact, there doesn't need to be a joint at all - you become a prohibited person by virtue of being "an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance". Note that, since this is a federal law, it doesn't matter if it's legal on state level. There's already precedent that having a state medical marijuana card already makes one…

It's strange especially because marihuana makes people very docile and laid back. Probably not a bad state for someone handing a firearm.

On the other hand for someone pumped up on coke it would be a big worry. Though I guess if the US had medical coke cards they would be banned as well :)

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#478

Post by polynomial » Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 6:14 AM UTC

What is the provocative information you can put on your form to speed up the security clearance process?

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#479

Post by sulam » Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 6:37 AM UTC

notch656c wrote: post #398

chiefgeek wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I filled out DoD form for TS clearance years ago and answered honestly that I had smoked weed and done coke in college. That's what my boss said to do. He said if they caught you in a lie you were finished because that meant you could be blackmailed. EDIT to add: Ironically he had gotten in trouble for phone phreaking as a teenager.

Anyone can be blackmailed. If the thing you did was less bad than the penalty for treason or revealing secrets (life in prison and/or death) then the blackmail argument falls apart. It's just more irrational hocus pocus by self-important bureaucrats. Hell the thing you're blackmailing doesn't even have to be true, they can just find an ex lover and blackmail that person to say you raped them or whatever, and well eve…

I mean, I used to say that I'd never be able to run for public office because . These days, have you seen the people in public office?!? If you can be elected President after some of the shit that last guy is on the record as having done, I think blackmailing me is probably hard.

The counter-example I'll mention is that if someone framed you for CSAM and could convince people you actually were doing that, blackmail might be effective. Not only is it fully beyond the pale, but just going to prison would be a death sentence.

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#480

Post by greiskul » Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 6:38 AM UTC

notch656c wrote: post #398

chiefgeek wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I filled out DoD form for TS clearance years ago and answered honestly that I had smoked weed and done coke in college. That's what my boss said to do. He said if they caught you in a lie you were finished because that meant you could be blackmailed. EDIT to add: Ironically he had gotten in trouble for phone phreaking as a teenager.

Anyone can be blackmailed. If the thing you did was less bad than the penalty for treason or revealing secrets (life in prison and/or death) then the blackmail argument falls apart. It's just more irrational hocus pocus by self-important bureaucrats. Hell the thing you're blackmailing doesn't even have to be true, they can just find an ex lover and blackmail that person to say you raped them or whatever, and well eve…

> Hell the thing you're blackmailing doesn't even have to be true, they can just find an ex lover and blackmail that person to say you raped them or whatever, and well even if you beat the charges your kids get tossed into DCS/foster care your life is ruined etc etc.

Someone being falsely accused like this would most likely immediately report it to their boss in the government asking for help. It would be very unlikely that the person would hide it and become an intelligence asset for the blackmailer.