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What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

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Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#401

Post by chiefgeek »

notch656c wrote: post #398
chiefgeek wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I filled out DoD form for TS clearance years ago and answered honestly that I had smoked weed and done coke in college. That's what my boss said to do. He said if they caught you in a lie you were finished because that meant you could be blackmailed. EDIT to add: Ironically he had gotten in trouble for phone phreaking as a teenager.

Anyone can be blackmailed. If the thing you did was less bad than the penalty for treason or revealing secrets (life in prison and/or death) then the blackmail argument falls apart. It's just more irrational hocus pocus by self-important bureaucrats. Hell the thing you're blackmailing doesn't even have to be true, they can just find an ex lover and blackmail that person to say you raped them or whatever, and well eve…

Yes, I did not particularly enjoy the two and a half years with that division!

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#402

Post by mgraczyk »

I went through the process of getting TS clearance the summer after my senior year of college, and I made the mistake of mentioning on my form that I drank alcohol with friends every weekend, and that I sometimes drank more than a few drinks in one night. At the time I figured this was the norm for people my age and thought nothing of it.

Unfortunately that was a big red flag for the investigators, and they interviewed 5-6 of my college friends asking about my behavior and whether or not I had a drinking problem. Very silly if you ask me but fortunately didn't seem to delay the process much.

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#403

Post by notch656c »

kortilla wrote: post #396
rodgerd wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I said, in the US, "Peter Thiel is a woman-hating monster and the country would be better if he and every politician on his payroll was swinging from a lamppost Mussolini style" it would be difficult to make any case that I was doing anything not covered by first amendment protections. If I'm a visitor to the country and say the same thing having signed an affirmation that I'm not going to advocate for violent ove…

I don’t think death threats are covered by the first amendment.

This is not legal advice but I think they are. See Brandenburg v Ohio.

"Brandenburg was convicted of violating a criminal law that prohibited speech that advocates crime, sabotage, violence, and other similar acts after he spoke at a KKK rally. The Supreme Court found that the law infringed on Brandenburg's First Amendment rights, and created the imminent lawless action test. In order for speech to fall out of First Amendment protection, it must 1) be directed at producing imminent lawless action and 2) it is likely to produce such action."

I think there is an exception for ones made against certain public officials, which IMO are likely unconstitutional, but no one is really excited about challenging those.

https://www.thefire.org/supreme-court/brandenburg-v-ohio

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#404

Post by nl »

notch656c wrote: post #398
chiefgeek wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I filled out DoD form for TS clearance years ago and answered honestly that I had smoked weed and done coke in college. That's what my boss said to do. He said if they caught you in a lie you were finished because that meant you could be blackmailed. EDIT to add: Ironically he had gotten in trouble for phone phreaking as a teenager.

Anyone can be blackmailed. If the thing you did was less bad than the penalty for treason or revealing secrets (life in prison and/or death) then the blackmail argument falls apart. It's just more irrational hocus pocus by self-important bureaucrats. Hell the thing you're blackmailing doesn't even have to be true, they can just find an ex lover and blackmail that person to say you raped them or whatever, and well eve…

For many people this isn't true.

It's not uncommon for people to _commit suicide_ over things they are being blackmailed about.

Plus people doing the blackmailing aren't stupid. They don't go "we know you lied on your clearance form about smoking weed once. Get us that top secret document!"

They start with something much lower risk and then leverage compliance into higher and higher value targets.

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#405

Post by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF »

BrandoElFollito wrote: post #377
lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't mean that Americans are more brutally honest in social interactions. In my experience, Americans commonly (admittedly, not always) avoid topics and observations which they think a listening party would find uncomfortable.

No s**t, my g*d these Americans are really ***** (who would have thought it is so difficult to beep out words in HN, I had to escape each *)

Reminds me of the time I said the fuck word kinda loudly in public in Provo, Utah. Had people looking at me like I'd just grown a second head.

That's kinda why I always say "the fuck word" instead of "the eff word". I've had too many interactions where somebody felt comfortable correcting my word choice for me to be polite about it. ("Fuckin' heck!" is pretty fun too; people just don't know how to respond.)

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#406

Post by cardiffspaceman »

walrus01 wrote: post #388
notafraudster wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. My father didn't do secure work, but he was an immigrant to the country where I was born. As part of the immigration process, he was asked whether he had ever been arrested (maybe it was charged, I don't recall and he's long gone so I can't ask). He said "no". In fact, he had been arrested as a pre-teen for stealing an idling tractor and joyriding in rural post-war England. Immigration authorities don't care th…

On the other hand, you can answer this too truthfully and just screw yourself up for no reason. Example: I know Afghan former translators/employees for ISAF projects who have been arrested by Pakistani "authorities", local police in various cities just for the purpose of shaking them down for bribes/money. I can guarantee you that no record of any such arrest exists in paper or electronic form anywhere in a database…

But what if you said you were kidnapped by people in police uniforms and forced to pay a ransom?

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#407

Post by walrus01 »

cardiffspaceman wrote: post #406
walrus01 wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, you can answer this too truthfully and just screw yourself up for no reason. Example: I know Afghan former translators/employees for ISAF projects who have been arrested by Pakistani "authorities", local police in various cities just for the purpose of shaking them down for bribes/money. I can guarantee you that no record of any such arrest exists in paper or electronic form anywhere in a database…

But what if you said you were kidnapped by people in police uniforms and forced to pay a ransom?

'have you ever been kidnapped' is a different question than 'have you ever been arrested', I suppose.

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#408

Post by notch656c »

nl wrote: post #404
notch656c wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone can be blackmailed. If the thing you did was less bad than the penalty for treason or revealing secrets (life in prison and/or death) then the blackmail argument falls apart. It's just more irrational hocus pocus by self-important bureaucrats. Hell the thing you're blackmailing doesn't even have to be true, they can just find an ex lover and blackmail that person to say you raped them or whatever, and well eve…

For many people this isn't true. It's not uncommon for people to _commit suicide_ over things they are being blackmailed about. Plus people doing the blackmailing aren't stupid. They don't go "we know you lied on your clearance form about smoking weed once. Get us that top secret document!" They start with something much lower risk and then leverage compliance into higher and higher value targets.

I don't see much functional difference between outcomes of committing suicide because you were blackmailed regarding a fake but believable rape accusation vs say blackmailed because someone found out you grew a bad plant. In the end though suicide seems like an honorable pick if the binary option is that or revealing life-or-death secrets to the enemy.

The US has such insane conspiracy laws frankly it isn't much effort for a few motivated individuals let alone a state actor to blackmail someone for the worst of false offenses using some corrupt "witnesses." Maybe before the war on drugs it was easier to blackmail someone with real offenses than fake ones but nowadays it's probably easier to manufacture them TBH.

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#409

Post by anticensor »

myself248 wrote: post #184
gpcz wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instead, the companies want people willing to lie on forms.

5+ years experience in a language/technology that only appeared 2 years ago! Congratulations, you will only hire liars. Which I think describes 90% of hiring these days.

No, that actually means they want a specific person, indeed not mentioned in the listing. When the right person applies, all those unsatisfiable requirements are suddenly ignored.

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#410

Post by TeMPOraL »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #391
floren wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The federal and state departments of agriculture go to great efforts to control agricultural diseases. Others have mentioned foot and mouth, but there are lots of other things. For instance, half of Washington State is declared an "Apple Maggot Quarantine Area" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Maggot_Quarantine_Area ) where it's illegal to bring in homegrown / wild-picked fruit lest you infect Eastern Washington…

> half of Washington State is declared an "Apple Maggot Quarantine Area" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Maggot_Quarantine_Area ) where it's illegal to bring in homegrown / wild-picked fruit lest you infect Eastern Washington's massive apple orchards. The article you link suggests that the quarantine area is the region from which it's illegal to bring fruit out . The wikipedia article also does something intere…

Isn't a mature fly just a maggot delivery vehicle?
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