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What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

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Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#111

Post by oaktrout »

saalweachter wrote: post #47
mcv wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a very obscure allergy to some specific compounds in some medication. It gives me a rash, nothing serious. I'm always very diligent in mentioning what little I still remember about that allergy.

I've spent thirty years telling doctors I'm allergic to amoxicillin; I'm not sure if I am, but that's how my parents started every doctor visit when I was small so I carry on the tradition. I think I might have thrown up after taking it as a small child, but I have no recollection myself.

Many people get a rash when a viral illness (epstein barr comes to mind) is treated with amoxicillin. This is not an amoxcicillin allergy.

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#112

Post by notafraudster »

matwood wrote: post #93
technothrasher wrote: post #67

"Here, fill it out again and don't mention that." I had the exact same experience when applying for a clearance while I was in college, for the "have you taken illegal drugs" question. When I honestly answered yes, the interviewer got fidgety and then asked, "well do you take them now?" no. "Do you know any drug users?" We're on a college campus, what would you like me to say? "Well, are you friends with any of them?…

This is surprising because it's the exact wrong thing to do. Past drug use will not disqualify you from a clearance, but lying absolutely will. Depending on the clearance level they will interview a number of people, including second degree connections. I know someone who used to be an investigator, and it surprised me when they told me how often first degree connections would say bad things about their 'friend'.

Yeah. My father didn't do secure work, but he was an immigrant to the country where I was born. As part of the immigration process, he was asked whether he had ever been arrested (maybe it was charged, I don't recall and he's long gone so I can't ask). He said "no". In fact, he had been arrested as a pre-teen for stealing an idling tractor and joyriding in rural post-war England. Immigration authorities don't care that a teen went for a joyride on a tractor. They care that he lied. Took a bunch of lawyering and paperwork to resolve the issue.

I guess fundamentally the distinction is "if they can catch you, tell the truth, and if they can't, make yourself look good", but I guess it can be hard to know.

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#113

Post by wongarsu »

LudwigNagasena wrote: post #109
deutschepost wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I heard a pretty good interpretation of why these questions exist. If you say that you don't plan to commit crimes and then commit one, you have essentially lied on the form. In some cases at least it is way easier for the state to deport someone if they lie on their immigration form. But if the question wasn't there you would have to go through the whole legal process. On the other hand, if you answer yes to this qu…

Why would it be easier to deport someone for lying on a form rather than for being a terrorist?

If they commit a crime there is the question of whether they should be imprisoned or deported. That likely involves a court case, something US prosecutors famously hate (just look at all the plea bargains).

If you lie on your immigration form, you gained entry under false pretenses. Nothing complicated or grey about that.

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#114

Post by kayodelycaon »

airesearcher wrote: post #90

I often answer the doctor office intake questionnaires with a glaring mistake just to see if anyone checks. Where it says “have you ever been pregnant?” I answer yes. I also mark that I am a male. No doctor’s office has ever mentioned this to me after I turn in the forms.

These are fun. I got told very clearly to not check any of the boxes related to mental health shortly after being diagnosed bipolar.

If I was suicidal but under treatment for it, I wasn’t suicidal for the purposes of the form.

Apparently I triggered some mandatory reporting law abd made a headache for everyone involved.

Oops.

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#115

Post by rwky »

pedrovhb wrote: post #91
grishka wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My only experience with serious US government forms was applying for a tourist visa. This form also has some bonkers checkboxes like "do you plan to commit any crimes in the US". Also the entry form they give you on your flight deserves a mention. This one has "did you handle livestock in the last X months" repeated like 3 times in different phrasing. Not as stupid as the first one, but... why? Why is that question t…

Ah, the "are you a terrorist" section of the U.S. visa application is hilarious. I was honestly laughing out loud at some of the questions, imagining a sincere terrorist having their plan foiled by their strict moral code which requires them to lay out in detail their plan to topple the government :)

The UK visa application has the same questions pretty much identical. Also made me laugh!

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#116

Post by sealeck »

jstanley wrote: post #105
deutschepost wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I heard a pretty good interpretation of why these questions exist. If you say that you don't plan to commit crimes and then commit one, you have essentially lied on the form. In some cases at least it is way easier for the state to deport someone if they lie on their immigration form. But if the question wasn't there you would have to go through the whole legal process. On the other hand, if you answer yes to this qu…

But you might legitimately not be planning to commit any crimes, but then change your mind once you get there. The fact that you committed a crime after saying you weren't planning to do so does not mean that you were lying.

Are you a lawyer?

:D

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#117

Post by SkeuomorphicBee »

LudwigNagasena wrote: post #109
deutschepost wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I heard a pretty good interpretation of why these questions exist. If you say that you don't plan to commit crimes and then commit one, you have essentially lied on the form. In some cases at least it is way easier for the state to deport someone if they lie on their immigration form. But if the question wasn't there you would have to go through the whole legal process. On the other hand, if you answer yes to this qu…

Why would it be easier to deport someone for lying on a form rather than for being a terrorist?

Because you need proof, and proving that someone is a terrorist is a long expensive and not guarantied process, while the lying on a form thing is purposefully self evident.

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#118

Post by apricot »

pedrovhb wrote: post #91
grishka wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My only experience with serious US government forms was applying for a tourist visa. This form also has some bonkers checkboxes like "do you plan to commit any crimes in the US". Also the entry form they give you on your flight deserves a mention. This one has "did you handle livestock in the last X months" repeated like 3 times in different phrasing. Not as stupid as the first one, but... why? Why is that question t…

Ah, the "are you a terrorist" section of the U.S. visa application is hilarious. I was honestly laughing out loud at some of the questions, imagining a sincere terrorist having their plan foiled by their strict moral code which requires them to lay out in detail their plan to topple the government :)

I am reminded of the (probably apocryphal) story about a logician asking for a visa to enter the US for a conference. When he got to the question "Do you plan to overthrow the United States Government by force or violence?" he hesitated and then answered "violence".

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#119

Post by allan_s »

LudwigNagasena wrote: post #109
deutschepost wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I heard a pretty good interpretation of why these questions exist. If you say that you don't plan to commit crimes and then commit one, you have essentially lied on the form. In some cases at least it is way easier for the state to deport someone if they lie on their immigration form. But if the question wasn't there you would have to go through the whole legal process. On the other hand, if you answer yes to this qu…

Why would it be easier to deport someone for lying on a form rather than for being a terrorist?

If i was to guess i would say the same as for Al capone, easier to prosecute for an administrative issue for which there is clear evidence and a fast-lane of application rather than go through heavy procedure required for heavy crime for which you may not have clear evidence

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#120

Post by [deleted] »

ArnoVW wrote: post #101
pedrovhb wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, the "are you a terrorist" section of the U.S. visa application is hilarious. I was honestly laughing out loud at some of the questions, imagining a sincere terrorist having their plan foiled by their strict moral code which requires them to lay out in detail their plan to topple the government :)

I've always understood that those questions are just a legal construct to be able to get you out of the country in case of issues. No need to prosecute for expulsion if there were lies on the immigration form; it becomes just an administrative matter.

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