Live data from Hacker News

Times New Roman is being phased out at the State Department, replaced by Calibri

twitter.com

251–260 of 267 posts

Re: Times New Roman is being phased out at the State Department, replaced by Calibri

#251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> metric [...] morally evil I've never heard an American complain that Coca Cola is sold by the liter. There's no moral component to Americans not wanting to switch to metric. It's simply a matter of the switch and retooling being more hassle than continuing to use American customary units. Frankly, the difference seems to bother Europeans a lot more than it bothers Americans.

>I've never heard an American complain that Coca Cola is sold by the liter. There's no moral component to Americans not wanting to switch to metric. There is, it's just that Americans are happy to overlook it here and there for completely arbitrary reasons.

> There is,

Show me the evidence. Where are these Americans sincerely claiming that metric is immoral?

Re: Times New Roman is being phased out at the State Department, replaced by Calibri

#252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You assert it will be incrementally better without offsetting for the externalities of the switch, which would take decades The use of SI units is likely measured in centuries. You'll be fine, and you might save a few rockets, rollercoasters and planes here and there: https://spacemath.gsfc.nasa.gov/weekly/6Page53.pdf

That one incident is because they didn't use metric in a domain where it would benefit from it. You won't save that rocket by changing how my clothes are labelled.

Consistency across all domains is a benefit in itself.

Re: Times New Roman is being phased out at the State Department, replaced by Calibri

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That one incident is because they didn't use metric in a domain where it would benefit from it. You won't save that rocket by changing how my clothes are labelled.

Consistency across all domains is a benefit in itself.

Yes, but as with everyone else, you are not factoring in the empirical value of the costs and just asserting it would be better.

Re: Times New Roman is being phased out at the State Department, replaced by Calibri

#254
post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aside from being overly pedantic, which is the reason I used the term, the doubly overly pedantic reply is that we do have the Imperial system, just redefined to be different than the itself-later-redefined imperial system. Furthermore, the names of the units are from the imperial system, even if the definitions themselves are not.

Try pouring an imperial gallon into a us gallon container and then tell me I'm being overly pedantic. The names of the units are from the winchester system which is what predated both US customary units and Imperial units.

I didn't say "imperial gallon" I said "imperial system" which is both historically correct and what people colloquially call it. Yes, since we adopted those units the measures have changed repeatedly on both sides of the Atlantic. I get it.

Re: Times New Roman is being phased out at the State Department, replaced by Calibri

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I don't put things where I think they should go, I put them where I am likely to look for them" - Adam Savage

I really like this quote, but I can't find any reference to Adam Savage saying it. Closest I can find is his concept of "First Order Retrievability" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyCrHLYiGNo

> I really like this quote, but I can't find any reference to Adam Savage saying it.

Maybe, instead of attributing the quote to someone who said it, they attributed the quote to someone who they'd think would've said it.

Re: Times New Roman is being phased out at the State Department, replaced by Calibri

#256
post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The imperial system is also European. fwiw Canada did the changeover to metric in the 70 and took about a decade and I’m rather glad we did it.

It's like technical debt. The longer you wait to fix it, the more it will cost you.

You people can downvote me all you want and the fact remains that the costs to make the switch are too high to happen any time soon. The real world isn't your company where you can just mandate things. Stakeholders, such as voters, get a say. Voters probably wouldn't support this if there was a net benefit in cost, but there's not, not anymore.

Of all of the things that are broken about the US, everyone here wants to fix the one thing that's not: our ambidexterity with units. Every school child learns both. We're terrible at raising kids to be bilingual, but we manage to teach them both metric and imperial units.

Once you concede that the metric system is already in de jure use in the US and in de facto use in domains where it's best to use it, you lose all kinds of benefit from switches. The low hanging fruit has been picked. You're left with empty non-empirical arguments like ... ummm... it's better to use one system. It is! But we're not starting from scratch.

Seriously, of all of the things I have posted on HN none has gotten more downvotes than saying that we don't need to go 100% metric in the US, I could speculate as to why, but it sure seems like this is some kind of nerd anti-normie shibboleth. It shouldn't be.

Go ahead, look up the figures. Then decide if it's still worth it to you. If it is, then try and convince enough policymakers not to just support it as the US does but to change everything over. You won't win that war. There has to be some specific need for the change.

'It would be cool' or 'it soothes my OCD' or whatever aren't enough to change something this massive.

Most problems it's a dodge to say "the money is better spent on X" but when you're talking about significant fractions of GDP that's just not how it is. We could do so much to improve people's lives with these sums of money.

Reminder that this is all about the US government internally sticking with letter sized paper. A4 paper is still A4 when measured in inches (which can be done exactly since inches are defined in terms of meters).

Re: Times New Roman is being phased out at the State Department, replaced by Calibri

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He just said he wasn't American so why would it be intuitive to him?

I am not an American, but until a few years ago there was not much of a push to move to metric on things like tools and plumbing. A lot of the world used imperial for such things even if they were not former british colonies.

I understood what you meant. I was just saying that your case is different since it wasn't necessarily that way for you the way it is for Americans.

There are many domains where imperial units have a nice human scale that makes sense, and then there are others where it is total trash and useless. I still fail to see what's so terrible about using both.

Re: Times New Roman is being phased out at the State Department, replaced by Calibri

#258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the early 2000s there was a person at Indiana U who also did this. You had to get any dissertation approved by her before printing. And there was a ruler. Are PDFs accepted for dissertations yet?

Dissertations go through the library's Electronic Thesis and Dissertation (ETD) service these days. Margins still matter, as do tons and tons of fiddly bullshit. My personal ETD "hilarity": there is/was a bug in Adobe Acrobat that caused the font I set my dissertation in to glitch/look jagged at exactly 100% zoom. If you shifted to 99.7% or 100.1%? It re-rendered and looked perfect. Only on Acrobat. Not in Chrome or…

For my MFA, my cohort was the first (and, it turned out last) to submit electronic copies of their theses. I doubt anyone was checking margins on that, although I made a point of making sure I hit all the formatting requirements. Of course, because I (and I think everyone from my cohort) requested an embargo of our theses expecting that someday we’d get NY publishing deals for our work. it effectively means that nobody will ever read them, unlike the cohorts who submitted printed theses which are shelved in the library so someone could go to the library and read them (at least in theory). Our program director mentioned something about some significant writer’s thesis in the University of Iowa library which has a note written inside the printed copy saying, “if you’re reading this, I guess I’m famous now.”

Re: Times New Roman is being phased out at the State Department, replaced by Calibri

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consistency across all domains is a benefit in itself.

Yes, but as with everyone else, you are not factoring in the empirical value of the costs and just asserting it would be better.

And as already noted, since the switch can happen over 1-2 decades but the permanence of units is measured in centuries. The benefits of clarity and consistency over that timeline necessarily outweigh the downsides.

Re: Times New Roman is being phased out at the State Department, replaced by Calibri

#260
post #44

Allegedly during Colin Powell’ time at the State Department there was quite an ordeal to change paper sizes for communication between offices: https://www.govexec.com/magazine/2001/06/the-powell-leadersh... “correspondence between headquarters and overseas embassies, known as Diplomatic Notes, for years had to be accompanied by a legal-size (8 1/2-inch by 14-inch) cover sheet. That wasn't really a big deal when the n…

[dead]
Post reply on HN