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Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

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Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#701

Post by tredre3 »

ricardobayes wrote: post #661
cableshaft wrote: post #605

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what's stopped me from getting them. They're not any healthier (and arguably less healthy) than the meat they're substituting. I'd rather they stuck with the old soy burgers that tasted less like meat but were clearly healthier (unless you're on a keto diet) than what they've come up with.

Well sure, not the meat itself, but the nitrosamines used to cure it, that's the bad part. According to my old boss who's a cancer researcher, apparently it's pretty carcinogenic. And it's basically unavoidable, the food industry hasn't been able to come up with anything better. Not using it, and having widespread botulism is not very fun.

> Well sure, not the meat itself, but the nitrosamines used to cure it, that's the bad part.

Burger meat isn't cured, though.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#702

Post by telchior »

rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote: post #691
COGlory wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fundamental problem is that everyone has a different reason for wanting plant-based meat/fake meat. So by any particular metric, they have failed. Some people want fake meat to be a 1:1 meat substitute because they love meat but can't eat it (allergies, cardiovascular, etc). Some people want cheaper meat because quality meat you can trust has grown too expensive. Some people want more vegan/vegetarian options bec…

> The problem is, those looking for meat substitute think it isn't close enough, those who want cheaper meat think it's too expensive, vegans/vegetarians have actually vegetable based options and aren't necessarily looking for fake meat at all I think of this stuff as none of these things. It's nicotine gum. Nicotine gum won't ever replace cigarettes, nor will people who don't smoke start chewing it. This is a produc…

> Nicotine gum won't ever replace cigarettes, nor will people who don't smoke start chewing it.

There are non-smokers who use nicotine gum; I'm one of them. Similar effect to caffeine with a lower half-life, so it's suitable to have later in the day. I'm sure that we're a small group, but if nicotine didn't have the specter of cigarettes hanging behind it, I'd imagine it could be quite a large market.

Plant-based meat is sort of the opposite. Real meat has the specter behind it, so there's a good funnel of people into the product. Furthermore, any kind of taste that's above "edible" eventually gets people acclimated; they expect and learn to enjoy it. I can't prove that on an individual basis, but the plant-based meat market is growing at a healthy clip and has been around for several years, which suggests a lot of repeat buyers. You'd have to provide some kind of evidence to say "eventually they'll graduate", as there's no indication of that so far.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#703

Post by telotortium »

andersco wrote: post #438

One very local anecdote that seems to contradict this: my local Trader Joe’s is nearly always out of Impossible burgers. On many occasions, I have stood in line at the shelf where they are kept, waiting for the person who is unboxing them and supposed to be stocking shelves but basically just handing directly to customers. Maybe not representative of the larger marketplace but at least in that store they are the prov…

I think that Beyond is feeling the pinch more, because it just tastes terrible. Impossible isn't as good as a real burger, but it's significantly better than Beyond, and Impossible is fine (discounting the cost) for filling out a spaghetti sauce or something where you can't taste the meat that well. So I think it's consumer preferences at work here

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#705

Post by JeremyNT »

Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #669
joshvm wrote: post #607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A friend and I did a (literal) blind taste test with impossible/USDA organic beef/beyond. I was excited to do this as we don't get Impossible in Europe. We baked our own buns etc, cooked to temp with a probe, got some nice cheese on top good stuff. We also did a blind tests of the proteins on their own, and in a plain burger. Neither of us had any trouble picking out which product was which, but it was really interes…

> In Switzerland meat is expensive. Organic ground/minced beef from Farmy is something like $15-20/lb. Organic chicken breast is $50/lb (around $15/breast). That's insane. I'm in the USA and I can get organic ground beef for under $7/lb. Organic chicken breast for $8/lb. Both can be even lower if I buy in bulk. If you don't care about it being organic, then both of them get to $3/lb.

Eating animals is incredibly resource intensive, and farming animals for meat results in externalities that are not paid by the producers or consumers.

Perhaps instead it's the USA prices that are "insane."

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#706

Post by idiotsecant »

noodlesUK wrote: post #674
idiotsecant wrote: post #621

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's pretty well established that the dietary cholesterol to blood cholesterol link is very strong in some people, very weak in some people, and somewhere in the middle for most people. There are definitely 'hyper-responders' for whom dietary cholesterol is very, very bad. There are also people that can eat dozens of eggs a day and have perfectly normal blood cholesterol. The only way to know how those geneti…

I’m just curious why you would eat 8-10 eggs daily? That seems like a very large number.

Because eggs are filling, relatively cheap, and pretty good for you. Especially if you have a body that doesn't do well with high-glycemic index foods and you don't want to eat animal meat.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#707

Post by jononomo »

spicymaki wrote: post #500
jononomo wrote: post #451

I am an advocate of the all-beef diet. I didn't consume a single calorie from any plant-based source for the entirety of 2021 and I ended the year feeling fantastic and in the best shape of my life. For some reason, I went off the "carnivore diet" in 2022, but I just gained belly fat and got lower back pain, so in September of 2022 I went back on it and this time I plan to stick with it for the rest of my life. I buy…

Even if all-beef cured every disease know to man it still would not be sustainable. Curiously: how do you get your vitamin C?

Fresh meat contains vitamin C. Also, vitamin C is needed for the synthesis of collagen and an all-beef diet contains a lot of collagen. Scurvy is only a problem for people like sailors in the old days who did not have access to fresh meat on extremely long voyages. Finally, consider the fact that human beings have lived in northern climates through ice ages that lasted a thousand years.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#708

Post by jononomo »

spicymaki wrote: post #679
jononomo wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Beef is not factory-farmed. All cows are raised grazing on grass and are taken to feedlots for fattening only just prior to slaughter. Cows don't go through the torture that chickens and pigs go through.

> Beef is not factory-farmed. That seems to go against common knowledge. Cows spend about a few months to a year on a feed lot which is most likely a concentrated feed lot (CAFO is a factory farm). Veal seems to be especially cruel. Dairy cows seem to have it pretty bad for around five years from start to finish.

I know -- common knowledge on this subject is atrocious. Also, being fed on a lot is not the same as being "factory farmed". It sounds like you just equate "raising cattle" with "factory farming".

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#709

Post by japaneseminisub »

HWR_14 wrote: post #637
georgyo wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meat tastes really good. I think there are many people who want to eat less meat but really enjoy meat. I am one of those people.

Meat tastes really good. That does not imply that plant-based pseudo-meat tastes better than plant-based recipes designed to use, not hide, the plant flavors.

It's so strange isn't it, there are so many vegetarian dishes that are delicious.

I've never understood the need to use a replacement that's worse across the board.

I wonder if it's a cultural thing, like "I want a steak"

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#710

Post by japaneseminisub »

dqv wrote: post #560
Swizec wrote: post #536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To quote a funny meme: If my mother had wheels she would've been a bicycle! You can't just replace ingredients. Make a lamb dish if lamb is what you want!

> You can't just replace ingredients. Huh? Yes you can. Replacing ingredients, adding ingredients, removing ingredients is the basis for all food culture. Recipes get passed down through generations and those variances over time are what give us distinct and unique dishes.

As my Italian friend once said:

"Yes, the thing with BBQ sauce and pineapple is tasty, but it's not a pizza!"

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