Just gotta ask: Southwest, NOTAM, and now this… Is some group pen-testing?
I would think, of all forums on the internet, that this forum would realize how many heaping piles of fragile software the world is built on.
Nationwide FAA weather reporting outage
151–160 of 236 posts
Re: Nationwide FAA weather reporting outage
#152Earlier quoted context omitted.
Southwest's meltdown was definitely not an attack. Their crew scheduling software was so outdated that it required people to call in and speak to a human to report when they were out of position due to a cancelled flight. The sheer volume of cancellations resulted in this very manual system simply falling over, and so when the weather cleared up they actually had no idea where most of their crews were.
Sure, that's the publicly-reported story. Is it sufficient? Hard to tell from the outside. Just a tiny bit of blackmailer-sabotage or vandal mischief-making – the sort of thing often underreported for legitimate reasons! – could've been the margin between some mild embarassment & the total collapse we saw. (For example: tying up the call-in lines to turn a normal hold time of minutes into hours, or long busy signals.…
All you're doing is letting your imagination run wild because you don't want to believe the simplest (and most likely) explanation. This isn't helpful to anyone.
Re: Nationwide FAA weather reporting outage
#153The outage seems to be in receiving reports from weather stations (primarily airports). When arriving at an airport, a pilot is required to confirm they have the latest METAR information for the site. It's presumed negligence when pilots don't know the weather. This is because weather is the #1 environmental factor in accidents. But the actual use of weather in flying (esp. for commercial flights) is not via METAR bu…
You say radar, but I think what you might mean is ads-b[0].
This is the system where weather info (among other information) is transmitted from a network of ground stations.
Re: Nationwide FAA weather reporting outage
#154Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's weird that americans always seem to have this sort of siege mentality. We already know the causes of the other outages, and they have nothing to do with the foreign interference boogeyman.
Are you so sure you have 0 people of this type in [country you are from]? Are you sure you are not seeing selection bias because the majority of users on this site are Americans?
I think that it's still pretty unique to the US. I completely agree with your point in general, and I think that internet discussions are often centered around America, so there's a huge selection biais in online discourse. But I truly think that the "the empire is under siege"/national security discourse is much more prevalent in the US. Which makes sense considering it is the empire ;). We don't really have that where I'm from. Instead of a siege mentality, we have a prevalent inferiority complex hahaha.
Re: Nationwide FAA weather reporting outage
#155Unlike the NOTAM outage, a METAR outage will and should actually affect flights. Without weather at your destination it becomes impossible to know if it’s safe to land there. The forecasts (TAF) are actually used more in flight planning, but actual weather is very valuable while enroute, when not close enough to hear weather over the radio from the destination airport.
Are local weather conditions not generally available for all airports at all times?
Yes. And that service is called METAR (METeorological Aerodrome Reports).
Re: Nationwide FAA weather reporting outage
#156Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's weird that americans always seem to have this sort of siege mentality. We already know the causes of the other outages, and they have nothing to do with the foreign interference boogeyman.
Why do you assume I am American? Or are you speaking generally? “We” don’t know the causes, only what was reported. I’ve worked on a lot of old systems needing to be updated, migrated, or sunset. For sure it’s 99% of the time due to management being lazy. I get that. And I know correlation/causation, but hey my orig comment was a simple curiosity. Sure, my nature distrusts what a corporation says because it’s always…
Actually you are right, sorry. Your comment didn't indicate that. My reply was mostly tainted by the other replies your comment got, and I assumed things I shouldn't have.
Re: Nationwide FAA weather reporting outage
#157Has anything happened regarding IT staffing at the FAA recently? There was the NOTAM outage last week [1], and now this! [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34337158
You mean besides the last three years of reduced on-site staffing, and employee travel to support maintenance and modernization? No. $5 says this is the XKCD for this. Corrupted DB file was the culprit, as announced by the FAA. It's a system that relies on user inputs, often manual, and it's all being put into a database. My bet is a user decided to put in a bunch of "fun characters" to make their input easier to rea…
Of course you can account for that. They're just byte strings. That xkcd is poking fun at incompetent programmers, not stupid users.
Re: Nationwide FAA weather reporting outage
#158Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's weird how Europeans have this fedual surf mentality.
I'm not european, and if anything, I'm looking into moving to the US soon. I'm not trying to do the usual "americans, amirite?" thing. It's just that there is much more of a "national security angle" to every discussion like this in the US. Which is pretty unique to america I thini
Go to Israel and say that. It is a feature but it is not unique. The US is a target for a variety of reasons. While a more mundane cause is likely, the implications of an attack are significant thus it would be unwise scoff this concern off as mere paranoia.
Re: Nationwide FAA weather reporting outage
#159Earlier quoted context omitted.
Southwest's meltdown was definitely not an attack. Their crew scheduling software was so outdated that it required people to call in and speak to a human to report when they were out of position due to a cancelled flight. The sheer volume of cancellations resulted in this very manual system simply falling over, and so when the weather cleared up they actually had no idea where most of their crews were.
Sure, that's the publicly-reported story. Is it sufficient? Hard to tell from the outside. Just a tiny bit of blackmailer-sabotage or vandal mischief-making – the sort of thing often underreported for legitimate reasons! – could've been the margin between some mild embarassment & the total collapse we saw. (For example: tying up the call-in lines to turn a normal hold time of minutes into hours, or long busy signals.…
What sort of reason do you have to believe that sabotage is involved, when it is adequately explained by the positive feedback loop of out-of-position calls exceeding the rate at which the can be answered?
Re: Nationwide FAA weather reporting outage
#160Earlier quoted context omitted.
Does in cockpit radar actually get you on the ground pressure?
No, of course not. But pilots aren't going to aviationweather.gov while they're flying, either. They get that info from the controller or ATIS.
No doubt. Inflight Wi-Fi is absurdly expensive. No way they’re paying for it.