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Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

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Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#661

Post by ricardobayes »

cableshaft wrote: post #605
scifibestfi wrote: post #570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was also the health marketing angle that flopped when people starting looking at the ingredients.

That's what's stopped me from getting them. They're not any healthier (and arguably less healthy) than the meat they're substituting. I'd rather they stuck with the old soy burgers that tasted less like meat but were clearly healthier (unless you're on a keto diet) than what they've come up with.

Well sure, not the meat itself, but the nitrosamines used to cure it, that's the bad part. According to my old boss who's a cancer researcher, apparently it's pretty carcinogenic. And it's basically unavoidable, the food industry hasn't been able to come up with anything better. Not using it, and having widespread botulism is not very fun.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#662

Post by dr_orpheus »

LesZedCB wrote: post #612
adamsmith143 wrote: post #598

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Some people want fake meat to be a 1:1 meat substitute because they love meat but can't eat it (allergies, cardiovascular, etc). Seems kind of absurd. Presumably a 1:1 meat substitute would be chemically identical to "real" meat and the allergies and health effects associated with it would be identical.

Not meat but happened with milk. Somebody allergic to casein or whey (I don't remember) drank vegan milk, but it was synthesized identical milk. Almost died, scary mistake.

Thanks for making me look this up. I was curious since my wife can't eat dairy proteins (not as a severe a reaction fortunately). I think that it was probably whey. There are some companies that have claimed to create whey that is identical to milk whey from vegan sources [0]. It makes me wonder how the ingredients list is labeled though. Since there are requirements to call out allergic sources in ingredients lists (it will say something like "Contains Milk" or "Allergy Warning: Milk, Tree Nuts") how or if it is listed on there. EDIT: On the Perfect Day website there is a small warning at the bottom that says "Our protein is a milk allergen". Also found some Brave Robot ice cream that uses their protein listed online at my grocery store. Under the Allergen Info it does say "Contains Milk and its Derivatives".

Also while looking around found that for casein, it is still used in some glues [1] on bottle packaging. Likely not the source since it wasn't ingested more of an interesting factoid.

[0] https://perfectday.com/animal-free-milk-protein/

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casein#Glue

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#663

Post by moneywoes »

saiya-jin wrote: post #472
maury91 wrote: post #429

I'm not a fan of plant-based meat, this is most likely because of my culture ( I'm Sardinian ), we do have many meat based dishes and many plant based dishes, and honestly I don't see the need to cook the meat based ones with processed food that tries to replicate the taste and consistency of meat. I believe that if you don't want to eat meat there's a world of recipes that do not involve meat and are made to elevate…

When I was backpacking around India and Nepal for 6 months altogether, I just stopped eating meat - their chicken pieces were always just bones with tiny bits of meat here and there, mutton was worse than chewing gum and that was it for the meat, food safety notwithstanding. Now enter a wonderful universe of vegetable curries and masalas where every household has their own twist on recipes and it all tastes so much d…

What about protein intake?

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#664

Post by JimBlackwood »

georgyo wrote: post #437
maury91 wrote: post #429

I'm not a fan of plant-based meat, this is most likely because of my culture ( I'm Sardinian ), we do have many meat based dishes and many plant based dishes, and honestly I don't see the need to cook the meat based ones with processed food that tries to replicate the taste and consistency of meat. I believe that if you don't want to eat meat there's a world of recipes that do not involve meat and are made to elevate…

Meat tastes really good. I think there are many people who want to eat less meat but really enjoy meat. I am one of those people.

But then in your effort to eat less meat, would you replace it with plant-based alternatives?

Personally, I cook without any alternatives and just make proper dishes with no meat. Then, once in a while, I’ll get some better locally sourced meat and make a great meat based dish.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#665

Post by ricardobayes »

dayvid wrote: post #618
maury91 wrote: post #429

I'm not a fan of plant-based meat, this is most likely because of my culture ( I'm Sardinian ), we do have many meat based dishes and many plant based dishes, and honestly I don't see the need to cook the meat based ones with processed food that tries to replicate the taste and consistency of meat. I believe that if you don't want to eat meat there's a world of recipes that do not involve meat and are made to elevate…

It's a good option for eating out as a vegetarian/vegan. At least in the US, most vegetarian/vegan restaurant dishes are an afterthought or non-existent unless it's a vegan restaurant. I don't complain about it, but I've come to not enjoy going to restaurants as a result of this. It's also not bad for people who want to transition from eating meat to being more plant-based and it's another option in general.

You'd be pleasantly surprised in Europe, just checked LA on happycow and shows 828 vegan-friendly options to dine, whilst looking at Vienna, a comparatively very small city showed 818 options.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#666

Post by kortex »

anonu wrote: post #491
maury91 wrote: post #429

I'm not a fan of plant-based meat, this is most likely because of my culture ( I'm Sardinian ), we do have many meat based dishes and many plant based dishes, and honestly I don't see the need to cook the meat based ones with processed food that tries to replicate the taste and consistency of meat. I believe that if you don't want to eat meat there's a world of recipes that do not involve meat and are made to elevate…

I second this sentiment. General advice is to avoid things in boxes and bags: aka highly processed foods. The ingredients list on the beyond meat website looks like this: Water, pea protein*, expeller-pressed canola oil, refined coconut oil, rice protein, natural flavors, dried yeast, cocoa butter, methylcellulose, and less than 1% of potato starch, salt, potassium chloride, beet juice color, apple extract, pomegrana…

There's only one thing on that list which isn't food/seasoning/salt: methylcellulose. However, it is derived from plant cellulose, and is basically a semi-synthetic equivalent of pectin, a natural product (or other dietary fibers). Methylcellulose is better than pectin because it's just easier to get standard properties.

There's nothing harmful about it and the body treats it exactly the same as pectin - it passes straight through like other dietary fiber.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#667

Post by 908B64B197 »

samuelbalogh wrote: post #530
lawlorino wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar story here in Finland, real meat is just so much cheaper than the fake veggie stuff. My theory was this was supply chains (being physically far away from the rest of Europe) and a relatively small market size, but interesting you have the same price discrepancy in France which I guess has neither of these issues. Just speculating here but do you think it is because of the strong food culture and links to iden…

It's partly due to the insane subsidies that livestock farming receives in the EU. If meat was not heavily subsidised, it would be much, much more expensive.

There's a reason these subsidies exist: maintaining Europe's food sovereignty.

See how well it turned out for Germany -and the rest of Europe- to transfer it's energy sovereignty to Russia...

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#668

Post by slothtrop »

reducesuffering wrote: post #620
slothtrop wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Animals are mostly sentient. The degree of "consciousness" is debated. Sardines don't even have a cerebral cortex, which to me puts them on the level of insects - vegans might object, but they won't object to squashing flies and using insecticides. As for the environment, depends on the animal - this is usually about methane (from cows) and land encroachment (also, because of soybean crops or whatever).

Vegans absolutely generally object to killing flies… Many won’t even steal the work of bees

If they really did, you'd expect to see calls to mitigate insect deaths as part of their usual dialog. They're apathetic. If you ask them, ostensibly they might object to killing insects to stay consistent, but they won't bring it up.

THat's pretty much in line with naturally expected behavior, because intuitively we don't expect much from insects.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#669

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

joshvm wrote: post #607
kup0 wrote: post #481

This editorialized link title and the article's headline itself doesn't really match the article's content (as is increasingly common it seems). Sure, Beyond Meat has had lower sales- but soon after they mention that retail sales of Impossible meat products increased 50% in 2022- with an odd "but the CEO left so they're in trouble" assessment which seems a bit bonkers. Then the author seems to say that because fake m…

A friend and I did a (literal) blind taste test with impossible/USDA organic beef/beyond. I was excited to do this as we don't get Impossible in Europe. We baked our own buns etc, cooked to temp with a probe, got some nice cheese on top good stuff. We also did a blind tests of the proteins on their own, and in a plain burger. Neither of us had any trouble picking out which product was which, but it was really interes…

> In Switzerland meat is expensive. Organic ground/minced beef from Farmy is something like $15-20/lb. Organic chicken breast is $50/lb (around $15/breast).

That's insane. I'm in the USA and I can get organic ground beef for under $7/lb. Organic chicken breast for $8/lb. Both can be even lower if I buy in bulk.

If you don't care about it being organic, then both of them get to $3/lb.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#670

Post by someNameIG »

slothtrop wrote: post #579
navierstokess wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some vegans believe that it is unethical to kill animals, and that they should have the same rights as us. Of course, they're wrong because animals aren't able to think. Others believe that meat is bad for the environment, however I don't know if that is correct as I haven't done any research on the topic.

Animals are mostly sentient. The degree of "consciousness" is debated. Sardines don't even have a cerebral cortex, which to me puts them on the level of insects - vegans might object, but they won't object to squashing flies and using insecticides. As for the environment, depends on the animal - this is usually about methane (from cows) and land encroachment (also, because of soybean crops or whatever).

As a vegan with things like sardines and insects is that, at least currently, we can't gauge if they can suffer or not, so err on the side of caution and don't eat them.
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