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Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

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Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#611

Post by uhtred »

Swizec wrote: post #479
maury91 wrote: post #429

I'm not a fan of plant-based meat, this is most likely because of my culture ( I'm Sardinian ), we do have many meat based dishes and many plant based dishes, and honestly I don't see the need to cook the meat based ones with processed food that tries to replicate the taste and consistency of meat. I believe that if you don't want to eat meat there's a world of recipes that do not involve meat and are made to elevate…

Fake meat feels similar to my Slovenian eyes. There's a whole world of recipes that just don't include meat and are delicious. It wasn't until I moved to the USA that I even realized those are "vegetarian" ... to me they're just regular foods and recipes. Lots of cottage cheese hearty meals with high protein content. It helps that traditional (100+ years ago) Slovenian culture was that you rarely eat meat because mea…

> Sometimes I talk to my vegetarian friends and ask "If you want to be vegetarian, why don't you just eat natively vegetarian dishes? Why the fake meat?". So far no satisfying answer.

c'mon, stop being deliberately ignorant.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#612

Post by LesZedCB »

adamsmith143 wrote: post #598
COGlory wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fundamental problem is that everyone has a different reason for wanting plant-based meat/fake meat. So by any particular metric, they have failed. Some people want fake meat to be a 1:1 meat substitute because they love meat but can't eat it (allergies, cardiovascular, etc). Some people want cheaper meat because quality meat you can trust has grown too expensive. Some people want more vegan/vegetarian options bec…

>Some people want fake meat to be a 1:1 meat substitute because they love meat but can't eat it (allergies, cardiovascular, etc). Seems kind of absurd. Presumably a 1:1 meat substitute would be chemically identical to "real" meat and the allergies and health effects associated with it would be identical.

Not meat but happened with milk. Somebody allergic to casein or whey (I don't remember) drank vegan milk, but it was synthesized identical milk. Almost died, scary mistake.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#613

Post by JumpCrisscross »

pakitan wrote: post #581
alexgrover wrote: post #567

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While this very well may be true, on this website I think we should hold our science to a higher standard than random Facebook comments

So, if I had posted this myself as a random HN comment, it would be fine but a random Facebook comment should somehow be held to a higher standard?

> if I had posted this myself as a random HN comment, it would be fine but a random Facebook comment should somehow be held to a higher standard

Yes, assuming you had a source.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#614

Post by idiotsecant »

alexgrover wrote: post #567
poszlem wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really doubt it was the "similarity to meat" that gave you those symptoms (though obviously there is no way for me to verify that, so you have the last word on what happens in your own body). Anyway - there is a great comment that I saved ( https://www.facebook.com/david.zilber/posts/pfbid02CkCY53qDd... ) "Here’s a pesky little chemical called hexanal. If you’ve ever eaten a beyond burger, or any of these plant bas…

While this very well may be true, on this website I think we should hold our science to a higher standard than random Facebook comments

excuse me while i polish my monocle.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#616

Post by jerf »

jasonjmcghee wrote: post #526
COGlory wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fundamental problem is that everyone has a different reason for wanting plant-based meat/fake meat. So by any particular metric, they have failed. Some people want fake meat to be a 1:1 meat substitute because they love meat but can't eat it (allergies, cardiovascular, etc). Some people want cheaper meat because quality meat you can trust has grown too expensive. Some people want more vegan/vegetarian options bec…

I've been slowly cutting meat out of my diet, and stopped eating beef a few years ago. I think Impossible burgers are too close to beef for me- I feel ill after eating them and no longer do. Much prefer the classic veggie/bean patties

I am always nervous about the "I ate this and I felt ill afterwards", because it is very easy to overinterpret.

Just two days ago I had a bit of "ill feeling", and was passing gas more than usual. Why? I ate a Chipotle burrito and I haven't had beans in a while. Not having had beans in a while almost always gives me a bit of gas. But if I keep it up and eat beans more routinely, my gut flora adapts and I get a lot less upset and gas.

I have a hard time calling "beans" a dangerous food. Yeah, some people might quibble about phytotoxins or something, but in general it's a food that has been eaten by a lot of humans for a long time and as such how bad it is is bounded; it can't be that bad. But if you use the "does it make me feel a bit ill" stick on it, you can easily get a false positive.

It is not unreasonable to expect to need a bit of adaptation to a new food. If I pay attention, I can notice a similar reaction, albeit on a smaller scale, to a number of cuisines if I haven't eaten them in a while. But it doesn't mean I can judge those entire cuisines as unsafe.

I actually don't post this in defense of the impossible burgers, which I expect are probably a bad idea for other reasons. I just don't think this is a good or reliable measure of that, because it visibly breaks in many other cases where there clearly isn't a fundamental problem.

(Now, if you eat them consistently for a while and it's still a problem, then you do have a problem. And I'm not asking you to do that, because there is no particular need to be able to eat such things.)

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#617

Post by stcroixx »

lukeschlather wrote: post #520
Swizec wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fake meat feels similar to my Slovenian eyes. There's a whole world of recipes that just don't include meat and are delicious. It wasn't until I moved to the USA that I even realized those are "vegetarian" ... to me they're just regular foods and recipes. Lots of cottage cheese hearty meals with high protein content. It helps that traditional (100+ years ago) Slovenian culture was that you rarely eat meat because mea…

Vegetarian/veganism is not a fashion choice, it's a moral one. It's like asking why a Muslim prepares a dish that's traditionally prepared with pork but instead substitutes lamb. I'm not sure what more explanation you require.

It was very trendy in certain circles when I was in college to be vegetarian/vegan and I think it was mostly a fashion choice. If it had been about morals, there would have been other lifestyle changes.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#618

Post by dayvid »

maury91 wrote: post #429

I'm not a fan of plant-based meat, this is most likely because of my culture ( I'm Sardinian ), we do have many meat based dishes and many plant based dishes, and honestly I don't see the need to cook the meat based ones with processed food that tries to replicate the taste and consistency of meat. I believe that if you don't want to eat meat there's a world of recipes that do not involve meat and are made to elevate…

It's a good option for eating out as a vegetarian/vegan. At least in the US, most vegetarian/vegan restaurant dishes are an afterthought or non-existent unless it's a vegan restaurant. I don't complain about it, but I've come to not enjoy going to restaurants as a result of this.

It's also not bad for people who want to transition from eating meat to being more plant-based and it's another option in general.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#619

Post by unity1001 »

comte7092 wrote: post #593
slothtrop wrote: post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well that's not true. Most cattle is grass fed for the majority of it's life at which point they will have them eat at feed lots to fatten up. In the West, or globally? Because commercial agriculture here relies on corn/grain feed most of their life.

You may want to check your sources, because that’s not how commercial at works in the west. Cattle are indeed raised on grass for the majority of their life , however they are fed grain to make weight for slaughter. In a sense, both positions are incorrect, because the image of cows grazing on grass most of their lives with little grain at the end is a very skewed picture (without grain the lifecycle would be substan…

> because that’s not how commercial at works in the west

You dont seem to be aware of factory farming...

https://www.worldanimalprotection.us/blogs/hidden-driver-fac...

> It is estimated that livestock consume 70% of the grain grown in the US, and that half of the water consumed in the US is used to grow grain for cattle.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#620

Post by reducesuffering »

slothtrop wrote: post #579
navierstokess wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some vegans believe that it is unethical to kill animals, and that they should have the same rights as us. Of course, they're wrong because animals aren't able to think. Others believe that meat is bad for the environment, however I don't know if that is correct as I haven't done any research on the topic.

Animals are mostly sentient. The degree of "consciousness" is debated. Sardines don't even have a cerebral cortex, which to me puts them on the level of insects - vegans might object, but they won't object to squashing flies and using insecticides. As for the environment, depends on the animal - this is usually about methane (from cows) and land encroachment (also, because of soybean crops or whatever).

Vegans absolutely generally object to killing flies… Many won’t even steal the work of bees
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