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What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

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Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#161

Post by dilznoofus »

ArnoVW wrote: post #101
pedrovhb wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, the "are you a terrorist" section of the U.S. visa application is hilarious. I was honestly laughing out loud at some of the questions, imagining a sincere terrorist having their plan foiled by their strict moral code which requires them to lay out in detail their plan to topple the government :)

I've always understood that those questions are just a legal construct to be able to get you out of the country in case of issues. No need to prosecute for expulsion if there were lies on the immigration form; it becomes just an administrative matter.

I mean, yeah. It's like gun laws that prohibit having a joint whilst commit armed robbery or whatever - it's not actually trying to stop the behavior, merely empower the prosecutor after the fact.

But, hey, there might be a true believer on the T-side! God says you're not supposed to lie, so it's a real Catch-22 - 'Render unto Caesar the evidence he deserves.'

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#162

Post by werdnapk »

NikolaNovak wrote: post #149

When I moved to Canada, at age 16-17 I initially failed a lot of job applications at places like Staples, Future Shop, Best Buy, Radio Shack, etc. For some reason, many of them had a type of "Corporate Personality Test" on their application, and asked the same "Have you ever considered stealing from your employer?" to which I would cheerfully answer "Yes". Apparently this was an automatic deal-breaker; there was no f…

In a similar vein... while driving down the road, have you ever "considered" just pulling into the opposing lane? I'd never ever do that, but I've considered others driving into my lane, which leads me to consider myself doing that to their lane.

Lots of other similar "I'd never do that" situations I've definitely considered.

I admire your honesty though. 99% of people would lie.

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#163

Post by Communitivity »

Some of the advice in the other comments is dead wrong ('don't mention it', 'lie', 'fudge things').

Have you done any of the things in the past 10 years if Top Secret, 5 if Secret (keeping in mind you might have to go TS before you've worked there 5 years)? Don't apply for a clearance, because they will find out eventually.

If you apply then, be honest and fully truthful, and disclose everything. They are looking for signs of bad current judgement and things you are trying to hide that could be used to blackmail you.

Also, "Have you considered X?" should be taken to mean 'Has you given more than a passing thought to X?'. If you had a relative die and thought 'I wonder why people commit suicide' that's one thing. If you thought 'Maybe I should kill myself', that is suicidal thought, even for a moment. Doesn't mean you're likely to do it. Does mean you should probably seek professional therapy to help you cope with your situation (doesn't mean you have a long time thing, just means at this moment you need some help coming up with coping mechanisms that work well enough).

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#165

Post by dsfyu404ed »

airesearcher wrote: post #90

I often answer the doctor office intake questionnaires with a glaring mistake just to see if anyone checks. Where it says “have you ever been pregnant?” I answer yes. I also mark that I am a male. No doctor’s office has ever mentioned this to me after I turn in the forms.

Realistically what's gonna happen is that the doctor will ignore it and the insurance company or some other bureaucracy (insurance, state regulator, etc) will use your errant answer as a pretext to do something that is advantageous for them at the expense of some other party (you, your doctor, etc).

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#166

Post by JamesSwift »

technothrasher wrote: post #67

"Here, fill it out again and don't mention that." I had the exact same experience when applying for a clearance while I was in college, for the "have you taken illegal drugs" question. When I honestly answered yes, the interviewer got fidgety and then asked, "well do you take them now?" no. "Do you know any drug users?" We're on a college campus, what would you like me to say? "Well, are you friends with any of them?…

For the written form, I've always been told to be 100% truthful. During the polygraph though I've had several antagonistic interactions similar to yours. Its all part of the game though at that point. They are trying to get under your skin. My personality does not play well in that scenario. Glad to be out of that line of work now, and I generally say no to anyone asking if I'd be open to having a clearance again.

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#167

Post by threatofrain »

screamingninja wrote: post #159
NikolaNovak wrote: post #149

When I moved to Canada, at age 16-17 I initially failed a lot of job applications at places like Staples, Future Shop, Best Buy, Radio Shack, etc. For some reason, many of them had a type of "Corporate Personality Test" on their application, and asked the same "Have you ever considered stealing from your employer?" to which I would cheerfully answer "Yes". Apparently this was an automatic deal-breaker; there was no f…

I would think that you have been using the word "considered" rather lightly. To me, it means careful thought and deliberation, not just "the thought crossed my mind at some point".

And there are many who do use “considered” to mean that a thought crossed their mind. Surely this does not shock you.

The problem is not the interpretation of a word. The problem is how the ocean of other people answered this question. There comes a point when being honest is completely stupid, and when most people use the word honesty they don’t mean to cross into the completely stupid territory.

That being said I’d consider such a person to be a fine candidate for friendship.

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#168

Post by foobarbecue »

NikolaNovak wrote: post #149

When I moved to Canada, at age 16-17 I initially failed a lot of job applications at places like Staples, Future Shop, Best Buy, Radio Shack, etc. For some reason, many of them had a type of "Corporate Personality Test" on their application, and asked the same "Have you ever considered stealing from your employer?" to which I would cheerfully answer "Yes". Apparently this was an automatic deal-breaker; there was no f…

I'm like you. An ex of mine claimed that most people never even think about committing suicide. It's hard for me to understand how anyone could avoid such an obvious thought, but I have since seen a lot of evidence that some people's minds really don't explore the possibility space, and when they do it's only along prescribed paths... So I guess it's possible?

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#169

Post by drfuchs »

Les Earnest's original 1986 "bboard" posting of this story, and other related ones, are to be found in the dump of the Sail backup tapes archived at https://www.saildart.org/BB.MSG[MSG,LES]

Search for "Finger flex" / "e-t-a-o-i-n Spy", "Kick the Mongrel" / "White Faces in New Places", and "The Missed Punch" / "Mongrel in a Star-chamber" for the the F.B.I. and security clearance entries.

As one might imagine from these stories, he's quite a character, and still alive at 92 (according to Stanford and Wikipedia).

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#170

Post by SpaceL10n »

foobarbecue wrote: post #168
NikolaNovak wrote: post #149

When I moved to Canada, at age 16-17 I initially failed a lot of job applications at places like Staples, Future Shop, Best Buy, Radio Shack, etc. For some reason, many of them had a type of "Corporate Personality Test" on their application, and asked the same "Have you ever considered stealing from your employer?" to which I would cheerfully answer "Yes". Apparently this was an automatic deal-breaker; there was no f…

I'm like you. An ex of mine claimed that most people never even think about committing suicide. It's hard for me to understand how anyone could avoid such an obvious thought, but I have since seen a lot of evidence that some people's minds really don't explore the possibility space, and when they do it's only along prescribed paths... So I guess it's possible?

I find this concept fascinating, where can I read more?
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