Surprisingly, I don't think I would do anything much different but double down. List the companies you like, throw out the ones that have a freeze, start from the bottom for practice, double down on prep.
Ask HN: With recent layoffs, how would you advise new grads entering the market?
221–230 of 270 posts
Re: Ask HN: With recent layoffs, how would you advise new grads entering the market?
#222Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'd say, having experiences at bad workplaces can still be valuable. This isn't to say one should seek out toxic colleagues and horrible working conditions, but knowing what you do not want is valuable too. And having bad workplaces early on is cheaper than having bad workplaces later in life. All in all, I'm trying to emphasize that a job in the field you want will almost always be beneficial when you're starting ou…
Broadly I agree with this, with the caveat that, especially as a junior developer/new grad, it can be both really difficult to spot that a workspace is toxic and really damaging to work in one over time. As far into my career as I am at this point, I've both a finely honed radar and zero tolerance for toxic bullshit, but as a new developer, it's a whole lot harder to have both the self-confidence and self-awareness t…
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Re: Ask HN: With recent layoffs, how would you advise new grads entering the market?
#223Earlier quoted context omitted.
One particular thing I've noticed in my neck of the woods is younger Junior devs only staying at junior level jobs for a set period. They stay only one year, almost to the day, despite good performance and good fit. That happened to a report of mine once, obviously with a previous mutual agreement, but some recruiters mentioned that trend to me as well. I think having a set date to leave is healthy, especially at thi…
A tangent to this is "management is now hesitant to hire people who have shown an established history of employment." When you hire a new grad, and then spend a year getting them all up to speed with the process and CI system and code reviews and familiarization with the code base and they're just now starting to take on the responsibility for some of the code... and they leave a year and a day after you hired them.…
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Re: Ask HN: With recent layoffs, how would you advise new grads entering the market?
#224Earlier quoted context omitted.
What difficulty did you manage with 6 hours of study?
Easy and medium. I wasn’t asked any hard questions in my interview.
While I would definitely say it's a good idea to study harder questions, my experience has been similar to yours in that I don't recall ever being asked a more difficult leetcode/HackerRank style question in an interview.
That being said, I've never interviewed at FAANG before. I suspect they are the ones who would be asking the tougher questions if only just to reduce the absurd number of applicants they receive.
Re: Ask HN: With recent layoffs, how would you advise new grads entering the market?
#225One strategy would be to go after ML/AI jobs that are at the profit centers of companies and whose success or failure means the success or failure of the company. There are lots of AI/ML projects done at the whim of some VP in a random business unit "because we have so much data there must be something there", or working on a speculative product. Those types of projects are really interesting and can be a lot of fun, but they get cut pretty fast when it's time to trim the budget.
I don't have a PhD in AI/ML, but I have delivered ML models into production. Doing so taught me that you must go about your modeling and science work with a practical urgency for results compared to the pace of academic research. Business applications don't require you to prove how smart you are (people just assume it), but they do require compromise to meet requirements and exceed stakeholder expectations. Where a lot of ML people lose the plot (and financial reward) is that they don't make enough tradeoffs for the operational or end user concerns for the model in its entire relevant context. I've seen this manifest a few ways, but a common one is getting fixated on the data you have, but never realizing you need to "close the loop" and make something actually useful for an end user in a measurable way.
Those are the practical, "productionize AI" jobs and there is huge interest in those now given the huge interest in LLMs. Who cares about the downturn, LLM start ups are the hot thing.
There are also industry research jobs, definitely worth applying for, but from my understanding they are very difficult to get.
Re: Ask HN: With recent layoffs, how would you advise new grads entering the market?
#226Vote better!
Re: Ask HN: With recent layoffs, how would you advise new grads entering the market?
#227I've been through the dotcom slaughter of 2000-2002 as a new grad (undergrad) and the comparatively small slowdown of 2008 (grad school new grad). Get ready to hit the Submit button... a lot. The stories of "getting three job offers after four interviews at five companies" are no longer reality. My application:interview:offer ratio has always varied from 50:5:1 to 100:10:1, and I would expect something like that or w…
I'm... that's a crazy ratio. Mine sits around that 5:4:3 ratio. I've rarely even had to apply for a position -- usually just got headhunted. I started about 13 years ago, and even my first job at a big tech company (LinkedIn), I was scouted. I don't even have a CS degree. I'm curious what your discipline is in?
Right, I’m in a similar boat and I didn’t even go to college… all self taught.
Re: Ask HN: With recent layoffs, how would you advise new grads entering the market?
#228Earlier quoted context omitted.
Somewhat unrelated but a remark of yours was interesting to me. You mentioned PhDs sometimes have previous engineering experience; did you find it common for ML PhDs to have waited a few years before entering a program? I’m exploring doing the same but had thought the ship had sailed, now that I’m in industry.
Not super common but its reasonably frequent for someone to go to industry for 2-3 years and then go for a masters/phd. Those candidates tend to be great as they are up on industry practices/technology like source control and databases where as some phds can have only academic coding experience. And they tend to have studied something they really knew they were interested in and really been the driver on their thesis…
Thanks for the insight! Encouraging.
Re: Ask HN: With recent layoffs, how would you advise new grads entering the market?
#229Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just to jump in on this - I got canned in the last big recession and while not a new grad, I took the next (contract) job that came up, at much lower pay, and over the next year doubled my take home from the original job. Two lessons 1. Spend your lunchtimes job hunting. Treat it like a job 2. Move around as a new grad. Think of it like dating, you have to kiss a few frogs just to get an idea of what is out there. (M…
> 2. Move around as a new grad. Think of it like dating, you have to kiss a few frogs just to get an idea of what is out there. This is related, but I got my start in a small consulting company and think it is a great place for anyone to start. Small is anything from 10 to 100. The one with 100 employees will have more process and stability, but your impact at a 10 person company will be larger (and possibly easier t…
Agreed from personal experience.
Consulting, and specifically exposure to a large number of corporate cultures in your clients, is a great accelerator at the start of a career.
Re: Ask HN: With recent layoffs, how would you advise new grads entering the market?
#2301. Yes it's better to get any job BUT do keep searching and never stop just tone down how much time you spend looking (i.e no job=full-time into applying, interviewing then with job=part-time into applying, interviewing) If you are fortunate to not worry about finances, then by all means continue searching.
2. Yes reach out directly. Getting into the thoughtstream of managers can enhance your chances of getting a job (managers can and will be very busy, they forget things every now and then so reaching out is essential)
3. Everyone working in the area you want to be in. If you know a company working in X and you like X, reach out to those who are working for X and let them know who you are, why you are contacting, and ask them about their time/experience in X. Do not be afraid to reach out, the worst you get is a no. Rejection is better than nothing in the game of hiring.
Below is additional notes that helps me through the game of hiring and looking for jobs. Take time to reflect and think about the pre-existing advantages you have. Then again reflect and think about the UNFAIR advantages you have. Unfair advantages are the very things you may take for granted that others would consider unfair. These things may, can and will be things that you will completely overlook so here's some examples:
- US Citizen, you should know this but if you don't there people going through laborous and painful undertakings just to have the same priviliges that you have as a US Citizen. Visas are dime a dozen and getting to a position to be given/apply for a visa is getting harder and harder.
- Alumni of university/college/high school that has any notoriety in tech, engineering, finance (or even any form of notoriety as long as its positive!)
- Network from university/college/high school/church/weekend rec league/hometown/current residence. Believe it or not a familiar face and name can lead into an interview and/or a job. There's probably people who like you for no other reason than the fact that they associate with you and remember you (vice versa applies too but we're talking positives here)
- Skill in highly specific niche that not entirely popular or "mainstream". If you have a skill and/or experience doing something in a niche this is beneficial for your chances as you can land an interview and form connections that can lead to more (network, interview, job, association, business)
- If you can and are willing to pack your bags and move across city/county/state/even country lines, you can increase your chances in landing an interview/job. If not disregard this
- There's a higher chance because you're a new grad, you'll be given leeway and are seen as a "cheaper" resource for the business. Understand this and use it. Shop your offers when you have them and if not say you do. Just cause its a downturn economically does not mean you need to experience a downturn in your personal economics
- Contact anyone and everyone you know and let them know you are looking for work. Mention it indirectly in communication for better effectivity
- Position yourself to be seen as high value.
Use every advantage you have.