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In the past, I've had students call my problem sets “emotionally trying”

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Re: In the past, I've had students call my problem sets “emotionally trying”

#201

Post by tgv »

deskamess wrote: post #42

Pretty much most senior level/grad algorithm classes are like this. They introduce a framework for solution and then give you about 2-3 example lecture problems that they walk you through. 2-3 weeks after being introduced to 5/6 frameworks its Exam day. You are given unique word problems that, in the eyes of someone experienced like a prof or PhD student, is trivial. But you are struggling with 1 week of homework exp…

What did you think? They were going to give your your diploma because you're such a nice person?

Re: In the past, I've had students call my problem sets “emotionally trying”

#202

Post by theGnuMe »

xyzzyz wrote: post #117
theGnuMe wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of the best scientists were and are unconventional late bloomers. Real science isn’t exam based. I’ve found that those who get the top grades at top schools can utterly fail to develop any novel research. In fact it’s a huge problem. Many grants proposals are largely ‘me too’ derivative works. This is why grad school hinges not on grades and exams but on actual research.

> Some of the best scientists were and are unconventional late bloomers. Sure, but that's beside the point. The funding is limited, and, what's even worse, if we spread it too thin, best scientists will leave to make millions on the wall street instead. At some point, a decision must be made as to who gets to proceed in the research career, and who is cut. Sometimes the apparent mediocrities will turn out to be late…

I disagree. Many phds go into industry which makes technological progress faster.

While Funding for some research is limited but it is in our interest to train more scientists rather than less.

The millions on Wall Street are applied physicists and mathematicians. This is a weird claim to make about being the best. Their research is easily computerized or you spend billions building particle accelerators.

Science is not zero sum.

Re: In the past, I've had students call my problem sets “emotionally trying”

#203

Post by yodsanklai »

njbooher wrote: post #198
blackbear_ wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that a lot of this cynicism comes after years of teaching and seeing that most students do not really care about the topic and do not want to put in more than the minimum effort required to pass. You don't realize how easy it is to tell apart those who are interested from those who are not until are on the other side.

Plenty of new faculty are more interested in research than teaching too.

> Plenty of new faculty are more interested in research than teaching too.

Partly, because they're evaluated on research.

Re: In the past, I've had students call my problem sets “emotionally trying”

#204

Post by njbooher »

yodsanklai wrote: post #203
njbooher wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of new faculty are more interested in research than teaching too.

> Plenty of new faculty are more interested in research than teaching too. Partly, because they're evaluated on research.

But are being paid by tuition revenue, from people who expect them to teach.

The US needs more national labs for people who want to do research but don't want to teach.

Re: In the past, I've had students call my problem sets “emotionally trying”

#205

Post by wnolens »

torben-friis wrote: post #146
xyzzyz wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That doesn't mean there is no room for "average" researchers. The "average" researchers are doing disservice themselves, the people funding their research, and actually good researchers. They are doing disservice themselves, because they would have most likely enjoyed much higher success at some other career or lifestyle. An "average" researcher at age 35 is rather poor, his or her life is rather unstable and preca…

Man, this mindset really seems like a recipe for a miserable life. We are not machines whose output must be optimized over anything else, for the joy of our investor overlords. Do what you enjoy doing, and if you don’t happen to be the best out of 7 billion people then congrats, you’re statistically normal.

Amen.

Re: In the past, I've had students call my problem sets “emotionally trying”

#206

Post by loudmax »

blackbear_ wrote: post #180
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many professors don't care about teaching. I've had conversations with physics/math/engineering academics which go "Those who are smart and motivated will get it, and I don't care about the rest."

I believe that a lot of this cynicism comes after years of teaching and seeing that most students do not really care about the topic and do not want to put in more than the minimum effort required to pass. You don't realize how easy it is to tell apart those who are interested from those who are not until are on the other side.

Agreed, but part of the teachers' job is to impart that curiosity and interest onto their students. That is hard to do, and only the very best teachers actually manage to do this.

Re: In the past, I've had students call my problem sets “emotionally trying”

#207

Post by lll-o-lll »

krageon wrote: post #197
lll-o-lll wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, I don’t buy this at all. I’ve never been a fast knowledge absorber, but that just meant I required a bit more time on my own, struggling with the content. Still managed to get max grades at undergrad university (didn’t go further because, well money). Also never stopped me from excelling in all work positions so far in life. If anything, a bit of struggle helps you go deep, and deep is much more valuable than fa…

I did have classmates that operated like this, but they all failed out. Perhaps it depends on the university :)

Rude. I was never below the top 1-2% of students in my classes (quarter of a century ago now, getting old). Depending on when you graduated, I’d hazard a guess that my course work was at least as challenging, if not more so. I don’t really have any insecurities about my intelligence, but I’ve also lived long enough to realise that intelligence is just like being pretty. It’s nice; you get stuff for free, but you didn’t earn it in any way. It doesn’t make me “better” than others, just lucky.

And I’m also old enough to realise that it’s starting to slowly decline and won’t be getting any better. Fluid intelligence that is. Good thing I went deep over my career, because that depth can’t be replaced by the younger set with their superior fluid intelligence. Knowledge, experience, and dare I say it, a bit of wisdom. Struggling a bit to really understand things has served me well in life.

Re: In the past, I've had students call my problem sets “emotionally trying”

#208

Post by martopix »

njbooher wrote: post #198
blackbear_ wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that a lot of this cynicism comes after years of teaching and seeing that most students do not really care about the topic and do not want to put in more than the minimum effort required to pass. You don't realize how easy it is to tell apart those who are interested from those who are not until are on the other side.

Plenty of new faculty are more interested in research than teaching too.

The system is unfortunately unfair to everyone, in the sense that it's an unfair expectation for people to love and be good simultaneously at teaching and research. I met many people that want to do research (because of passion or because that's what gets you a career) and are bothered by teaching; I've also met people, including myself, who prefer teaching to research, and it's unfair that neither of these groups can express their skill properly.

I predict that in the future there will be more of a separation of careers, especially at the bachelor level, where having an instructor that knows the state of the art of research is not so necessary (although I'd argue that they should have a PhD). This is already happening a bit, say, in the UK, especially in fields like CS where courses are required also in other degrees curricula.

Re: In the past, I've had students call my problem sets “emotionally trying”

#209

Post by j7ake »

WalterBright wrote: post #91
haswell wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and you observe other students putting similar amounts of effort, but obtaining much better results, understanding things more quickly and getting better ideas, you should probably just drop out I'm sorry, but even if this is true under some circumstances, this seems like terrible general advice, and only matters if your only goal is to reach the top echelons of your field. That doesn't mean there is no room for "a…

My career advice is usually: 1. draw a circle around the things you enjoy doing 2. draw a circle around the things that pay well 3. draw a circle around the things you're good at The intersection is your best career path. I tried to be a musician. Epic failure. I tried sports. Catastrophic failure. I tried sales. Monumental failure. Persisting in those endeavors as a career is akin to beating my head on a rock. Peopl…

Problem is these circles are dynamic and often unknown.

What you’re good at depends on how much you know, practice, and inherent talent. First two changes over time, third one is an unknown variable. You also don’t know when you should give up. Should Einstein have given up science after he couldn’t get a faculty job and had to work in the patent office?

Things that pay well depends on economic situations that can change dramatically. See the cryptocurrency world.

Things you enjoy doing also change. Many stories here show that making a career doing things you enjoy can suck the enjoyment out of it.

Re: In the past, I've had students call my problem sets “emotionally trying”

#210

Post by martopix »

krageon wrote: post #152
deskamess wrote: post #42

Pretty much most senior level/grad algorithm classes are like this. They introduce a framework for solution and then give you about 2-3 example lecture problems that they walk you through. 2-3 weeks after being introduced to 5/6 frameworks its Exam day. You are given unique word problems that, in the eyes of someone experienced like a prof or PhD student, is trivial. But you are struggling with 1 week of homework exp…

This matches my experience of an IT education in university perfectly. 90% of my class just didn't get it at all and the remaining 10% had a lot of experience in the field already (there were a small amount of extremely smart folks as well of course - they needed no background). Kind of defeats the purpose of teaching, but it does serve to weed out the folks that can't pick things up very fast. I think that is one of…

> I think that is one of the goals of high-level schooling.

But it really shouldn't be, except after every effort to accompany people who struggle more has been made

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