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Microsoft to lay off 11k employees

reuters.com

431–440 of 481 posts

Re: Microsoft to lay off 11k employees

#431

These layoff articles are incomplete without mentioning how many they hired and when. This brings Microsoft back to their staffing levels of when exactly? March 2021?

What’s the relevance of knowing a previous employee count? How does this information “complete” the story?

Believe it or not, like the stock market, employee headcount doesn’t only go up, it goes down too.

Re: Microsoft to lay off 11k employees

#432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an uncharitable take. The ability to fire at-will is the reason companies in the US are able to hire and pay as high as they do. As a dual-national Brazilian-American who has also spent years living in Europe, the social contracts are very different, and different people might value different things, but I'll take the downside layoff risk in exchange for upside in pay and mobility.

> This is an uncharitable take. The ability to fire at-will is the reason companies in the US are able to hire and pay as high as they do. I feel there is no rational basis for this belief, and it's mostly guided by wishful thinking to fool yourself into believing that all this penance leads to some kind of salvation. It doesn't. There are highly paid professionals in other countries who benefit from higher worke pro…

I'm not sure why this represents a victim mentality or some kind of penance. I don't see it that way at all. It's simply risk/reward and understanding how the economic incentives work independent of moral judgements.

As a founder it's crystal clear: you quit your job, you start building a company with no salary, you get some traction, get some investment, and if you work hard and have a good dose of luck along the way you can be very successful (far more than any salaried employee), or you might fail and earn nothing.

Now you add employees, they are expensive and you don't really know what the business climate will look like over time. You know you need some to fulfill your growth potential, but where is the point of diminishing returns? There's no way to know. The Silicon Valley VC model is: if you get a whiff of product-market fit and think you have a potential category-defining product, pour as much money in as you can to maximize scaling—even if it is wasteful or risks flaming out, you do it anyway because otherwise someone else may do it and win.

Now, if you are in a country like France, worker protections mean that if you over-hire, you risk killing the entire company because you overshot your mark and you can't do layoffs. This absolutely plays into hiring plans, and if you don't acknowledge this then it is you who are engaged in wishful thinking.

Note that I don't have anything against worker protections, I liked living in Europe and there are a lot of things that are preferable to the States, but economic upside for programmers like me is not one of them. FAANG definitely broke through the old glass ceilings for tech folks, but A) that competition was introduced by American capitalism and B) even for FAANG it's still significantly higher total comp stateside.

Re: Microsoft to lay off 11k employees

#433

How to interpret this? MSFT felt like stablest FAANG

FAANG isn't a very good acronym if Microsoft is in it. GAMMAN would would better.

Coincidentally, the acronym you came up with can be pronounced in the same way as 我慢 [1], which, in modern parlance, is the Japanese equivalent of "grin and bear it".

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaman_(term)

Re: Microsoft to lay off 11k employees

#434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll say this until you are the one let go. Companies are irrational and layoffs of this scale are not capable of targeting the poor performers.

At least you have actual skills to find a new job.

Well, yes and no.

The skills one develops on the job and the skills one needs to actually perform well at a job are not really tested well by the standard big tech interview loop (startups can be innovative here, but it can go either way).

Generally the competent folks reluctantly acquire the silly skills required to pass through the gatekeepers though.

Re: Microsoft to lay off 11k employees

#435
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? What's wrong with firing people during other economic conditions? Why would the paperwork be any different, whether it's a small layoff or a big payoff? Ctrl-C/Ctrl-V is cheap, Microsoft implemented it many times in many products.

If you heard Microsoft just did 11k layoffs and then you got a job offer from them how does that sound to you ? To me it sounds like I could be in the next round if I get hired on the wrong team.

I declined an offer from Microsoft late last year, in large part because of earlier layoffs. I am sure I was not the only one.

Re: Microsoft to lay off 11k employees

#436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also serves as a nice buffer when you are switching jobs - you can take the PTO and still be employed (& so covered by health insurance for a bit longer, and stocks are still vesting), making for a nice break from work.

So you have unlimited PTO, what’s stopping you from taking a vacation.

Discretionary unlimited, so the answer to your question most likely will be: "my manager".

Edit: props to Microsoft for not being scared to call the policy by its true name.

Re: Microsoft to lay off 11k employees

#437
post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've gone in between both roles. I can be a CTO of a $50 million company and just another senior engineer at a $5 billion one. Probably the most approachable explanation of this phenomena is in Reid Hoffman's blitzscaling. I was looking for the diagram and I found it on some random blog https://miro.medium.com/max/1400/0*LDHDNGnfy2IJmIWE Anyway, if we extend this analogy, I could be say, an important member of a vill…

How do you position yourself when looking for a job? Divergent background of this sort could be a liability. And then you have to be explicit about what you want in your next role. Do you have two different resumes?

I haven't had to look for a job in over a decade. They come to me.

No idea really

Re: Microsoft to lay off 11k employees

#438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> MSFT currently have $100b cash on hand. Fwiw, unless cash on hand already accounts for it (I don't think it does), then $70B of that is tied up in the Activision acquisition. Thus we really only have $30B cash on hand, which in a higher than previous interest rate environment is probably not great (though afaict Apple has $48B). Likewise, our cash on hand has been drastically dwindling the last few years, making th…

They haven't said so yet -- perhaps they'll clarify on the call tomorrow -- but they'll probably take down new debt to make this happen; it's a good time to go to the markets, and a lot of their cash is parked overseas. Fitch recently announced they're withdrawing their ratings for MSFT debt, so that's probably an indication they expect a significant amount of the purchase price to come from new issuances.

> they'll probably take down new debt to make this happen; it's a good time to go to the markets

How so with interest rates that keep going up?

Re: Microsoft to lay off 11k employees

#439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is an uncharitable take. The ability to fire at-will is the reason companies in the US are able to hire and pay as high as they do. I feel there is no rational basis for this belief, and it's mostly guided by wishful thinking to fool yourself into believing that all this penance leads to some kind of salvation. It doesn't. There are highly paid professionals in other countries who benefit from higher worke pro…

I'm not sure why this represents a victim mentality or some kind of penance. I don't see it that way at all. It's simply risk/reward and understanding how the economic incentives work independent of moral judgements. As a founder it's crystal clear: you quit your job, you start building a company with no salary, you get some traction, get some investment, and if you work hard and have a good dose of luck along the wa…

Perhaps the best of both worlds is American mobility coupled with European public services, as the other post mentioned- "working national health services and free education." Not having to stress over lack of health insurance or ability to pay off student debut (and medical debt!) would go a long way towards making American layoffs less existential.

Re: Microsoft to lay off 11k employees

#440
post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is less pessimism and more realism. The fed clearly indicated that it will raise rates until the market cools

As far as the Fed is concerned inflation, unemployment & GDP growth are all definitely higher priorities than the stock market.

I agree. I didn't mean to imply I was taking about stocks.

If the fed is shrinking economic investment until employment and inflation goes down, companies are preparing for slow growth.

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