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Microsoft to lay off 11k employees

reuters.com

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Re: Microsoft to lay off 11k employees

#401

Post by datavirtue »

anonporridge wrote: post #24
Xeoncross wrote: post #4

I'm wondering what data really drives the back-and-forth at big tech. We've seen google, amazon, microsoft, meta, etc.. do hiring freezes, then layoffs. Hiring freeze, then back open, or layoffs then more layoffs later. I would expect a longer term plan than just looking forward or backwards one quarter which seems like what has been happening the last year. I would assume they had better information and insights tha…

Mass layoffs give you the opportunity to quickly purge poor performers without as much paperwork. It's advantageous to have regular rolling layoffs because of this if you can justify them by economic conditions. There's also an effect of wanting to do smaller, pulsating layoffs over the course of many months or even years rather than one massive layoff of the size you actually need, because ultimately no one knows ex…

Logic doesn't hold up. The same hiring practices you used to acquire "poor performers" (or culture to create them) are still in place.

Re: Microsoft to lay off 11k employees

#402

Post by ttt333 »

gradstudent wrote: post #295
ttt333 wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you clarify what you mean about the dollar in your pocket worth more than debt at 3% interest? In corporate finance net cash or net debt is indeed standard practice (cash on balance sheet less debt on balance sheet). It sort of helps understand how much cash is ‘available’ to give back to investors, or pay down debt, spend on R&D, etc. Now since most of MSFT’s long term debt matures in 2027 or after, you could…

> In corporate finance net cash or net debt is indeed standard practice (cash on balance sheet less debt on balance sheet). It sort of helps understand how much cash is ‘available’ to give back to investors, or pay down debt, spend on R&D, etc. I'm not a financier, but isn't "available cash" the amount left over after subtracting the amount needed to service (rather than clear) the debt?

Fair question. My answer would be... kinda.

The cash available on an ongoing basis to be re-invested or returned to investors is what you might call levered free cash flow [0], which I think is what you are referring to.

My comment about "available" cash is more like available for big one-time investments like a big acquisition, a special dividend, or something like that.

[0]: https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/111714/whats-differ...

Re: Microsoft to lay off 11k employees

#403

Post by Der_Einzige »

floxy wrote: post #128
postalrat wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FAANG is missing the M

Yahoo, Oracle, Microsoft, Amazon, Meta, Apple

Glad to see people put those others in the list.

Too many people assumed that Microsoft, Oracle, Yahoo, and related companies weren't matching offers and were somehow "worse" to work for.

It was exactly the opposite. They were matching offers, and even poaching engineers from the other FAANGs. Yet they never got any respect.

Re: Microsoft to lay off 11k employees

#404

Post by simplotek »

dasil003 wrote: post #344
simplotek wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why would they spend any amount much less $3b or $10b to keep people they don’t need/want? I understand that HN is a US-centric forum, where neoliberalism dictates the baseline and the interpretation of all things in life is reduced to a simplistic transaction in a theoretical free market. However, society is comprised of people with family and a personal life and hopes and dreams and aspirations. Hiring someone ha…

This is an uncharitable take. The ability to fire at-will is the reason companies in the US are able to hire and pay as high as they do. As a dual-national Brazilian-American who has also spent years living in Europe, the social contracts are very different, and different people might value different things, but I'll take the downside layoff risk in exchange for upside in pay and mobility.

> This is an uncharitable take. The ability to fire at-will is the reason companies in the US are able to hire and pay as high as they do.

I feel there is no rational basis for this belief, and it's mostly guided by wishful thinking to fool yourself into believing that all this penance leads to some kind of salvation.

It doesn't.

There are highly paid professionals in other countries who benefit from higher worke protection laws and even public services like working national health services and free education. Virtually all European countries ensure greater workers protection and half have a higher human development index than the US, and FANG salaries in Europe often lead to far greater disposable income. Heck, I personally know a FANG who was forced to pay overtime for oncalls in europe while US workers only get the pager app and the shaft.

Also, being subjected to abuse is not a requirement for mobility. Mobility only requires that you can quit your job and apply for other positions. There is no piece in the equation that requires abusive revolving door hiring practices.

People should shed their victim mentality and stop fooling themselves on how the path to riches is through suffering. It isn't. Basic human decency doesn't need to be thrown out of the window. That's only a requirement to screw over workers out of their rights and livelihood.

Re: Microsoft to lay off 11k employees

#405

Post by pcurve »

danielxli wrote: post #139

Here's a dashboard we made keeping track of the economy. We're now at a higher number of layoffs in January than any month in 2022 except for November https://app.plusdocs.com/startup-funding-/page/clcgzzo551257...

nearly 0 savings rate and all time low consumer sentiment. Hrm...

Re: Microsoft to lay off 11k employees

#407

Post by ZhadruOmjar »

kristopolous wrote: post #212
tikhonj wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mass layoffs give you the opportunity to quickly purge poor performers without as much paperwork. It's advantageous to have regular rolling layoffs because of this if you can justify them by economic conditions. I've heard people say this, but it seems contrary to how layoffs are run in practice: • entire teams or divisions are often laid off with no eye towards individual employees' tenure, experience or skills •…

I've never seen a cold and calculated layoff. It's always been exasperated irrational arm-waving risk mitigation. The "good" people aren't kept - instead it's the ones that can navigate the political waters. For every one competent executive there seems to be 3 deluded narcissistic idiots who will slash and burn people who are overqualified and under-utilized for the positions they've been incompetently assigned. Now…

Great write up and very useful in an industry where a lot of people seem to think "doing a good job" is enough to get recognised, lots of money and continuous promotions. The transition from IC into Management really needs a head shift and I think a lot of software engineers aren't prepared for the machinations of modern corps.

Re: Microsoft to lay off 11k employees

#408

Post by hyperhopper »

deltree7 wrote: post #151
mgkimsal wrote: post #34

11,000 people - let's say an average loaded cost of $250k/yr. That's... ~$3b/yr these folks cost MSFT. Granted, it's per year, but ... keeping these people on for another 3 years would cost ~$10b. MSFT currently have $100b cash on hand. It's gotta be a little... frustrating to get be part of a 5% cut when there's so much free cash sitting around. I know, it's a narrow view of corporate finance, and I don't have the '…

I hope you keep your Uber drivers, Landscapers and Cleaning Ladies on retainers because you have so much cash in your brokerage/bank account

My roommate and I literally kept our maid on retainer during COVID when she could not come.

Re: Microsoft to lay off 11k employees

#409

Post by ZhadruOmjar »

spacemadness wrote: post #317
anonporridge wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mass layoffs give you the opportunity to quickly purge poor performers without as much paperwork. It's advantageous to have regular rolling layoffs because of this if you can justify them by economic conditions. There's also an effect of wanting to do smaller, pulsating layoffs over the course of many months or even years rather than one massive layoff of the size you actually need, because ultimately no one knows ex…

Why are we spreading the “poor performers are the ones let go” trope that hurts anyone laid off? That’s a very dangerous assumption to be spreading around blindly.

It's simply not true and very observable if you've ever been at a company that does layoffs. Plenty of good teams get let go or entire groups in the company from management down are let go, it just doesn't make sense that they would all be "low-performers". Some low-performers will be caught up in layoffs, sure, but plenty will remain at the company too.

Re: Microsoft to lay off 11k employees

#410

Post by sleepybrett »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #379
sleepybrett wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, the deprecation of APIs ... and has driven away, or may drive away, many of the core content providers for their network effects. People who buy a third party client for twitter are generally not casual users. I reached out to a few friends I would consider 'posters' a couple of journos, a couple of 'personal brand' advertiser types... all of their twitter engagement is way down .. from both sides of the conv…

Why isn’t there a Tweetbot for Mastodon? Onboarding is a PITA. With Twitter ceding the ground, this could be a real differentiator. Hell, you could build a licensing component paid to the servers.

There is, it's just in beta. It's called Ivory: https://tapbots.com/ivory/

It won't help you, currently or maybe ever, pick a server, but it's a great client even in it's beta form.

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