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The Pretty Good House

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Re: The Pretty Good House

#251

Post by hgomersall »

doctorhandshake wrote: post #191
ssl232 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TIL quadruple glazing is a thing. Is the light noticeably more attenuated through 4 panes of glass compared to 2 or 3?

In the US the rating associated with this loss is called Visible Light Transmission, or VLT, and it can be quite low by percentage, especially in ‘Low-E’ windows designed for sunny climates. The nature of our perception of light intensity means that the use of a percentage of transmission might not be the best measure for the effect. I feel like something like the geometric scale of the f-numbers used in cameras woul…

Low-e windows are not just for sunny climes - it's arguably the dominant benefit of modern windows. Interestingly, when you put low emissivity layers on each pane, it doesn't matter whether it's pointing towards the inside or the outside. When pointing outwards, it reduces the propensity to radiate outwards, when on the inside it reduces the propensity to be heated by radiation. More layers are good because that increases the number of low-e layers you have - with double glazing, you only have two on the insides; with triple glazing you have 4.

Re: The Pretty Good House

#252

Post by bradknowles »

joris wrote: post #123
bradknowles wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In triple and quadruple glazing, you frequently don't get three or four layers of actual glass. The two outer layers are still glass, but the inner layers are usually thin sheets of plastic, and the voids are frequently filled with noble gasses like Argon for improved insulation. Although I have seen in Alaska where they do double glazing windows on the outside as storm windows, then about six inches to a foot inside…

That probably depends on where you are. Here in Amsterdam, our triple glazing is made out of all actual glass. In our house it’s made out of four 6-mm sheets of glass actually. So one double sheet that’s a sandwich with a glued layer of foil in between (like a windshield), used as a security component either on the outside (anti break-in) or on the upper floors on the inside as a way to prevent falling through the wi…

Yeah, I'm sure it does depend on where you are.

For the nearly eight years that my wife and I lived in Brussels, Belgium, we lived in an old house (rented) that was built around 1910, and so we didn't have even double glazing, although we did have French Doors, and we had custom-made screens that had to be manually placed into the windows and then pinned in place with a nail instead of always attached to the outside. So, I don't have much knowledge of what current European building standards are in this space.

I do prefer the German-style double-opening windows that I saw in the house my sister-in-law was renting near Spangdalem AFB, along with the Rolladen that they had installed. But again, that was a rental in an older home.

I have been watching Laura Kampf and her "Haus Lise Lotte" project on YouTube, but again that's a 120 year old house, and they haven't gotten to replacing the windows yet.

Any suggestions for an English language channel where I could learn more about current European building standards, maybe something like Matt Risinger's "Build Show" for US building standards that I've been watching on YouTube?

Re: The Pretty Good House

#253

Post by bradknowles »

bloak wrote: post #122
bradknowles wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In triple and quadruple glazing, you frequently don't get three or four layers of actual glass. The two outer layers are still glass, but the inner layers are usually thin sheets of plastic, and the voids are frequently filled with noble gasses like Argon for improved insulation. Although I have seen in Alaska where they do double glazing windows on the outside as storm windows, then about six inches to a foot inside…

I'd expect the insulating properties of a gas at normal temperatures and pressures to depend only on the molecular mass. That's 40 for argon, and 28 for nitrogen. This web page ( https://www.pressglass.com/noble-gases-and-thermal-insulatio... ) says the thermal conductivities are 0,026 W/(mK) for air and 0,018 W/(mK) for argon. 26/18 is about 1.44; 40/28 is about 1.43. So perhaps the conductivity is inversely proport…

I'm not exactly sure how they choose which particular gas to use, but I'm sure the lighter gasses will leak more easily.

Conceptually, it's like a thermos bottle, and you'd think that you would want a vacuum, but apparently that's hard to keep intact on windows, so a noble gas between the layers works better.

Re: The Pretty Good House

#254

Post by bradknowles »

gambiting wrote: post #107
bradknowles wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In triple and quadruple glazing, you frequently don't get three or four layers of actual glass. The two outer layers are still glass, but the inner layers are usually thin sheets of plastic, and the voids are frequently filled with noble gasses like Argon for improved insulation. Although I have seen in Alaska where they do double glazing windows on the outside as storm windows, then about six inches to a foot inside…

>>and the voids are frequently filled with noble gasses like Argon for improved insulation. How long is such a window rated for? Surely the gas will eventually leak out?

Properly constructed, I think these windows are expected to have a useful lifespan of at least 20-30 years. I think the heavier gasses are less likely to leak, so long as the window is kept intact and undamaged.

Re: The Pretty Good House

#255

Post by max51 »

fblp wrote: post #143
max51 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Can I just throw more money at the problem so that I'm less stressed and offload more decisions to the builders? Yes you can. It requires two things: 1) you need to hire a builder who has experience with commercial and/or industrial construction. Hire the same type of builder that you wanted to build a small dental clinic. Tell them explicitly that you want everything to build built with the same standards as their…

Do you know anyone who has actually done this? I think this advice isn't just throwing money at the problem, your suggestion sinks time into creating a mini-bureaucracy to ensure quality decision making. That mini-bureaucracy may in itself may make it hard to source/retain the various contractors you're suggesting. For example I imagine it would be quite hard to source a small dental clinic builder who does high qual…

>Do you know anyone who has actually done this?

I have.

>your suggestion sinks time into creating a mini-bureaucracy to ensure quality decision making

My main suggestion is to hire an engineer/architect, they will manage all of this crap. They will work FOR you and not for the contractor and money doesn't come out of their pocket when they reject something.

>For example I imagine it would be quite hard to source a small dental clinic builder who does high quality work

It's not, they don't need to know how to design it, they just need to have done commercial work before and be used to work on a project that has architects/engineers watching them. Dental clinic was just a random example. Government buildings might have been a better one.

>and is also willing to sign a 200-page city level government procurement contracts without significant negotiation or persuasion.

In every region, there should be one contract that everyone is used to work with and that is fairly balanced. You should not write a new one or try to negotiate clauses. They are long because they have a clause for almost every possible type of conflict that could happen. No one actually reads them cover-to-cover because it's mostly just common sense or things that don't apply but someone has to put it in writing to make it official. If the project goes well, you will never open it.

It provides instructions on things like how to approve an extra and payment schedules, how to fire them, how to reject work, how to contest a decisions from the expert, maximum delays for important things, etc. If you want a hands-off approach, it will protect you. The more involved you want to be, the less you need it.

Re: The Pretty Good House

#256

Post by Gravityloss »

dkarl wrote: post #250
Gravityloss wrote: post #236

Here double pane has been the standard for about a century and triple pane after the eighties. No problems whatsoever. I don't even know what's the standard nowadays. Newer windows also quiet down traffic well and reduce the drafty feeling. So there are really very few excuses to not use them. But I don't know what's the name of the phenomenon when someone who uses some primitive technology comes out with all kinds o…

I don't know what to call it on the consumer end, but on the builder side, it's often just laziness and greed. If they don't know how to work with a material, then it sucks. If it's hard to hire subs that know how to build something, then it doesn't meet code and won't pass inspection. If they misbid it, it will never work and needs to be redesigned. In short, building contractors are a lot like software developers.…

If energy was predictably more expensive, that would be one way to sort it out. You wouldn't buy a house or an apartment without analyzing living costs. Contractors would suddenly get very interested in building more energy efficient housing. I've also heard that in Russia, pensioners get a free amount of energy per month. That leads to a lot of wastage. For example if the pensions could be in cash, then the person would be motivated to save energy.

You do need cultural change too though. One way is to just demand visibility, not make any demands on actions. We have a published "energy class" for apartments and houses here. Our current apartment is class F or so - so we know our living cost is more sensitive to district heat prices than a class B apartment would be (those are newer and have in general higher purchase price).

Re: The Pretty Good House

#257

Post by dkarl »

carabiner wrote: post #11

I'm looking at building a home as a first time home owner in the next few years. One thing I'm wondering is how many headaches can I avoid if I just choose an expensive builder and not try to haggle or save a buck at every turn? I just want a 2-bedroom, 1,000 sq ft bungalow and am willing to pay 60-70% more than the average $/sqft in my city if they do a good job. I'd rather have a nice small place rather than a huge…

If you're willing to pay more for a better result, one option is a design-build architect, or an architect who has built houses locally and can hook you up with good contractors to get bids from.

Some of the things you pay for when you hire the most expensive builders may or may not have value for you. Expensive builders invest a lot in communication with clients. You'll have a point of contact and possibly even a web portal to help you follow the progress of construction and keep an eye on expenses, just like on a big commercial project. The amount of money you pay to get that might be better spent on better design or better materials.

If you just want the house to be built well, you don't necessarily need to go that high-end, but it's a good idea to work with somebody experienced who can help you pick the right contractor and be your representative in dealing with them through the build process.

Re: The Pretty Good House

#258

Post by swayvil »

hinkley wrote: post #151
bjarneh wrote: post #88

> Even the best windows and doors on the market perform much worse than even an average wall New windows here in Norway are often triple or quadruple glazed, and they have a pretty good R-value; so they are not that much worse than average walls at least.

Someone just got a patent on transparent aerogel. It'll be interesting to see if they can make window layers out of it.

Holy frijoles!

https://news.mit.edu/2020/making-remarkable-material-even-be...

Re: The Pretty Good House

#259

Post by toast0 »

jonasdegendt wrote: post #102
toast0 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, if you want it done right, you really have to be involved. Frequent checking on the work and hounding the people to fix it. Which also means you need to know enough about construction to ask the right questions to figure out what's right or not. It's very hard to effectively contract that out. If you can date/marry someone in construction/architecture, and let them supervise, it helps. You can just pay…

> Frequent checking on the work and hounding the people to fix it. Isn't this partially what you pay your architect for? If you're willing to pay top dollar you should be able to find one that's very hands on and coordinates the whole building process as your representative.

On home construction, some people use an architect to get their plans stamped and that's it. Those architects aren't supervising construction at all.

But, if you've hired the architect to supervise construction, you've still got to supervise the architect. Maybe you only have to hound the architect to get issues fixed and let them figure out who fixes it, though; and they'll likely get a lot of things fixed without you, but you'll still get better results with regular supervision than hands off.

Re: The Pretty Good House

#260

Post by darau1 »

toast0 wrote: post #66
carabiner wrote: post #11

I'm looking at building a home as a first time home owner in the next few years. One thing I'm wondering is how many headaches can I avoid if I just choose an expensive builder and not try to haggle or save a buck at every turn? I just want a 2-bedroom, 1,000 sq ft bungalow and am willing to pay 60-70% more than the average $/sqft in my city if they do a good job. I'd rather have a nice small place rather than a huge…

Unfortunately, if you want it done right, you really have to be involved. Frequent checking on the work and hounding the people to fix it. Which also means you need to know enough about construction to ask the right questions to figure out what's right or not. It's very hard to effectively contract that out. If you can date/marry someone in construction/architecture, and let them supervise, it helps. You can just pay…

> If you can date/marry someone in construction/architecture, and let them supervise

Shit

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