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The Pretty Good House

prettygoodhouse.org

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Re: The Pretty Good House

#121

Post by dan-robertson »

bjarneh wrote: post #88

> Even the best windows and doors on the market perform much worse than even an average wall New windows here in Norway are often triple or quadruple glazed, and they have a pretty good R-value; so they are not that much worse than average walls at least.

I guess a ntuple-glazed window is going to have a lot less thermal mass than a wall (though presumably depends on the wall material too – thick stone walls will have more mass than wood+plaster). But I’ve little idea what the right amount of thermal mass is for a building.

Re: The Pretty Good House

#122

Post by bloak »

bradknowles wrote: post #97
ssl232 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TIL quadruple glazing is a thing. Is the light noticeably more attenuated through 4 panes of glass compared to 2 or 3?

In triple and quadruple glazing, you frequently don't get three or four layers of actual glass. The two outer layers are still glass, but the inner layers are usually thin sheets of plastic, and the voids are frequently filled with noble gasses like Argon for improved insulation. Although I have seen in Alaska where they do double glazing windows on the outside as storm windows, then about six inches to a foot inside…

I'd expect the insulating properties of a gas at normal temperatures and pressures to depend only on the molecular mass. That's 40 for argon, and 28 for nitrogen. This web page (https://www.pressglass.com/noble-gases-and-thermal-insulatio...) says the thermal conductivities are 0,026 W/(mK) for air and 0,018 W/(mK) for argon. 26/18 is about 1.44; 40/28 is about 1.43. So perhaps the conductivity is inversely proportional to the molecular mass? In that's true then it's not a "noble" gas you want for improved insulation, but a dense gas (so not helium). You should be using tungsten hexafluoride! OK, not really: see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tungsten_hexafluoride for why not.

Re: The Pretty Good House

#123

Post by joris »

bradknowles wrote: post #97
ssl232 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TIL quadruple glazing is a thing. Is the light noticeably more attenuated through 4 panes of glass compared to 2 or 3?

In triple and quadruple glazing, you frequently don't get three or four layers of actual glass. The two outer layers are still glass, but the inner layers are usually thin sheets of plastic, and the voids are frequently filled with noble gasses like Argon for improved insulation. Although I have seen in Alaska where they do double glazing windows on the outside as storm windows, then about six inches to a foot inside…

That probably depends on where you are. Here in Amsterdam, our triple glazing is made out of all actual glass. In our house it’s made out of four 6-mm sheets of glass actually. So one double sheet that’s a sandwich with a glued layer of foil in between (like a windshield), used as a security component either on the outside (anti break-in) or on the upper floors on the inside as a way to prevent falling through the window.

Re: The Pretty Good House

#124

Post by morsch »

gambiting wrote: post #107
bradknowles wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In triple and quadruple glazing, you frequently don't get three or four layers of actual glass. The two outer layers are still glass, but the inner layers are usually thin sheets of plastic, and the voids are frequently filled with noble gasses like Argon for improved insulation. Although I have seen in Alaska where they do double glazing windows on the outside as storm windows, then about six inches to a foot inside…

>>and the voids are frequently filled with noble gasses like Argon for improved insulation. How long is such a window rated for? Surely the gas will eventually leak out?

From what I can find, the leakage is estimated at https://www.haustechnikdialog.de/Forum/t/65875/Haltbarkeit-A...

Re: The Pretty Good House

#126

Post by Retric »

gambiting wrote: post #107
bradknowles wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In triple and quadruple glazing, you frequently don't get three or four layers of actual glass. The two outer layers are still glass, but the inner layers are usually thin sheets of plastic, and the voids are frequently filled with noble gasses like Argon for improved insulation. Although I have seen in Alaska where they do double glazing windows on the outside as storm windows, then about six inches to a foot inside…

>>and the voids are frequently filled with noble gasses like Argon for improved insulation. How long is such a window rated for? Surely the gas will eventually leak out?

Leakage rate is ~1% per year. However the gas isn’t so important you need to replace the window as argon is only up to 16% better than air.

It’s worth it to manufacture windows like this, but unless you’re in the arctic circle I wouldn’t worry about the difference.

Re: The Pretty Good House

#127

Post by entropyie »

jonasdegendt wrote: post #102
toast0 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, if you want it done right, you really have to be involved. Frequent checking on the work and hounding the people to fix it. Which also means you need to know enough about construction to ask the right questions to figure out what's right or not. It's very hard to effectively contract that out. If you can date/marry someone in construction/architecture, and let them supervise, it helps. You can just pay…

> Frequent checking on the work and hounding the people to fix it. Isn't this partially what you pay your architect for? If you're willing to pay top dollar you should be able to find one that's very hands on and coordinates the whole building process as your representative.

Our Architect in Ireland did this for us. He found the builders and also hired a QS and other people to manage cost. It was not at all cheap but well worth it as we were in no position to supervise ourselves. Even for a modest build, it was well worth the cost.

I can't understand how people can spend $$$ on building a new house but try to go cheap on the Architect... All you get is a McMansion.

Re: The Pretty Good House

#128

Post by ido »

sgt wrote: post #94
bjarneh wrote: post #88

> Even the best windows and doors on the market perform much worse than even an average wall New windows here in Norway are often triple or quadruple glazed, and they have a pretty good R-value; so they are not that much worse than average walls at least.

Here in South Africa, single glazed is still a thing. I've been replacing all my windows with double glazing. I considered triple but that makes them very heavy and expensive. Benefits are both in hot summer and in the relatively cold winter.

Where in South Africa? I would guess that along the coast the weather is never extreme enough for this to matter all that much?

Re: The Pretty Good House

#129

Post by dan-robertson »

bradknowles wrote: post #97
ssl232 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TIL quadruple glazing is a thing. Is the light noticeably more attenuated through 4 panes of glass compared to 2 or 3?

In triple and quadruple glazing, you frequently don't get three or four layers of actual glass. The two outer layers are still glass, but the inner layers are usually thin sheets of plastic, and the voids are frequently filled with noble gasses like Argon for improved insulation. Although I have seen in Alaska where they do double glazing windows on the outside as storm windows, then about six inches to a foot inside…

Somehow I’d thought the voids were usually evacuated but that doesn’t really make sense with the pressure involved. Apparently it is possible to have a vacuum inside but uncommon and harder to manufacture (and you need support pillars to separate the panes). https://www.glassonweb.com/article/vacuum-insulating-glass-p...

Re: The Pretty Good House

#130

Post by onion2k »

carabiner wrote: post #11

I'm looking at building a home as a first time home owner in the next few years. One thing I'm wondering is how many headaches can I avoid if I just choose an expensive builder and not try to haggle or save a buck at every turn? I just want a 2-bedroom, 1,000 sq ft bungalow and am willing to pay 60-70% more than the average $/sqft in my city if they do a good job. I'd rather have a nice small place rather than a huge…

Can I just throw more money at the problem so that I'm less stressed and offload more decisions to the builders?

Do you think that would work with paying someone to write some code for you? Do you think that the highest paid consultants write the best code? Of course not. There's a high probability that you'll just pay more for a badly written app. You need someone who you know cares about the product, who comes recommended by people you trust, and ultimately someone who you can check on and verify that they're actually doing a good job.

Builders are the same.

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