Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Pretty Good House

prettygoodhouse.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

221–230 of 339 posts

Re: The Pretty Good House

#221

Post by sgt101 »

carabiner wrote: post #11

I'm looking at building a home as a first time home owner in the next few years. One thing I'm wondering is how many headaches can I avoid if I just choose an expensive builder and not try to haggle or save a buck at every turn? I just want a 2-bedroom, 1,000 sq ft bungalow and am willing to pay 60-70% more than the average $/sqft in my city if they do a good job. I'd rather have a nice small place rather than a huge…

My tip is get yourself an experienced independent agent/manager to supervise the build - or treat it as one semester of a college course on how to build houses, and accept the costs that you would expect (with the full realisation that you are going to have to do two more to "graduate").

When I first did projects I got caught repeatedly with items that were not on the spec sheets or costings - but were 100% required. This is one of the ways that builders manage price competition with the inexperienced. They 100% know what the rate that is likely to get quoted will be, if they want the work they will quote lower than that and will use overruns to make back to the market or somewhat above (because by then you are stuck).

An experienced project manager will catch 95% of these issues some will sneak through but they will also have the contacts to get these sorted if the builders are unreasonable. You will pay out a chunk to employ this person - sure - but this will pay you back just with the cost overrun issue (in my experience) and at the same time you will have much less day to day work on your plate. So, it's basically a "free" assistant.

Also, what's a good job? You have ideas... but experienced builders (and your manager) will know where it's really smart to spend your money.

Re: The Pretty Good House

#222

Post by geewee »

vanderZwan wrote: post #196
hansjorg wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a bit annoying with new windows that they perform so well that you'll get dew or ice on the outside a lot of the time. Supposedly, windows with an outer self cleaning layer get less condensation, but they're quite expensive.

I expect I would consider that charming, but I can imagine it gets annoying after the first week

My windows do that - I still think it's pretty fun even after some time.

Re: The Pretty Good House

#223

Post by the_gastropod »

adamgordonbell wrote: post #214
willis936 wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the economies of scale involved with a tree farm or gravel pit? These are building raw materials. The amount of processing needed is minimal.

It's not about scale, but about the efficiency of growing. Trees, for instance, don't grow well in areas with little soil. Or for extreme example they don't grow at all in places that are cold enough. So shipping them in from places where they do make more sense then attempting to grow them locally. I mean I'm sure there are scale advantages in gravel quarries and logging mills, but I'm not certain how much that matt…

In areas without trees it’s common to build homes with rammed earth, bricks, cob, or other building materials.

The PGH book is mostly focused on a north eastern US perspective, where trees are plentiful.

Re: The Pretty Good House

#224

Post by hasbot »

carabiner wrote: post #11

I'm looking at building a home as a first time home owner in the next few years. One thing I'm wondering is how many headaches can I avoid if I just choose an expensive builder and not try to haggle or save a buck at every turn? I just want a 2-bedroom, 1,000 sq ft bungalow and am willing to pay 60-70% more than the average $/sqft in my city if they do a good job. I'd rather have a nice small place rather than a huge…

I'm not sure what you're trying to avoid. After the plan is finalized, there is a discussion between the builder and owner about materials and furnishing (e.g. flooring, countertops, cabinet style, siding, roofing, HVAC, lights, paint, etc). But once those decisions are made, it's (hopefully) off to the races. That's the way it'll be with a budget builder or a luxury builder.

The actual construction is what is crucial. All builders and their subcontractors will be in a hurry to get the job done so they can move on to the next job. I expect most are professionals and care about doing a good job, but there are plenty who are OK with a shoddy job. They'll be most likely gone when the problems in their workmanship is done.

Hang out in /r/HomeImprovement for a while and you'll see all sorts of contractor fuckups.

Getting a good builder and subcontractors is a crap shoot. My wealthy neighbors a few years ago wanted to build their dream/final home. The builder left halfway through. They found a new builder and eventually completed the project but way past the original date. They finally moved in and had to deal with so many issues that it was hurting their marriage. After about a year, they decided to sell the house. The new owners were still dealing with construction issues (for example, the crawlspace wasn't properly waterproofed and had significant water intrusion).

If you want to be hands off, buy an existing house and hire a really good inspector to tell you what kind of shape it's in. Some inspectors don't do a very good job either, so...

Re: The Pretty Good House

#225

Post by hasbot »

alanwreath wrote: post #27

Love this new resource. I've been geeking out over what seems to be some near term changes on what it means to build a home. For the longest time it seemed to mean (in the US at least): - wood - waste - lifelong high expense - manual and with the sudden explosion of - 3D printed houses (https://communityimpact.com/austin/georgetown/housing-real-estate/2022/11/17/3d-printed-homes-in-georgetown-offer-new-approach-to-bu…

As someone that has been interested in houses and housing construction for 25 years, the biggest change is on making a house air tight. Specific levels are now called for in the building code. The construction industry is still trying to work out the kinks though and unfortunately fixing the kinks requires ever more equipment, complexity, and cost.

Re: The Pretty Good House

#226

Post by actionfromafar »

joris wrote: post #123
bradknowles wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In triple and quadruple glazing, you frequently don't get three or four layers of actual glass. The two outer layers are still glass, but the inner layers are usually thin sheets of plastic, and the voids are frequently filled with noble gasses like Argon for improved insulation. Although I have seen in Alaska where they do double glazing windows on the outside as storm windows, then about six inches to a foot inside…

That probably depends on where you are. Here in Amsterdam, our triple glazing is made out of all actual glass. In our house it’s made out of four 6-mm sheets of glass actually. So one double sheet that’s a sandwich with a glued layer of foil in between (like a windshield), used as a security component either on the outside (anti break-in) or on the upper floors on the inside as a way to prevent falling through the wi…

6mm sounds very thick?

Re: The Pretty Good House

#227

Post by bjarneh »

Scoundreller wrote: post #181
bjarneh wrote: post #88

> Even the best windows and doors on the market perform much worse than even an average wall New windows here in Norway are often triple or quadruple glazed, and they have a pretty good R-value; so they are not that much worse than average walls at least.

Does Norway require insulation based on building profile or just walls must be X, windows must be Y? By building profile I mean, higher requirements if you want massive windows; to account for their lower R rating than a wall. Or higher requirements for a rectangular footprint vs a square footprint because the rectangle has a more surface area for the same volume. (Does anywhere take this approach???)

> Does Norway require insulation based on building profile or just walls must be X, windows must be Y?

It's the walls must be X, windows must be Y:

https://dibk.no/regelverk/byggteknisk-forskrift-tek17/14/14-...

Re: The Pretty Good House

#228

Post by orthoxerox »

alkonaut wrote: post #216
tdiff wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Russia triple-glazed windows have been as well pretty much standard for decades.

Somehow I think that might vary a bit. 20% don't have indoor plumbing, I'd be shocked if they had 3-glass windows in those homes. Of course, standard for new construction could be it ,as I guess there is also very little new construction in poorer areas.

People that don't have indoor plumbing certainly can't afford new windows, but their old (handmade) windows are usually double-glazed for warmth (and the part of the house that has single-glazed windows and uninsulated walls is abandoned for the winter.

Source: spent a few summers fetching water from a well and crapping into an outdoor toilet.

Re: The Pretty Good House

#229

Post by matthiasl »

bjarneh wrote: post #88

> Even the best windows and doors on the market perform much worse than even an average wall New windows here in Norway are often triple or quadruple glazed, and they have a pretty good R-value; so they are not that much worse than average walls at least.

To put some numbers on "much worse" versus "not much worse":

The best window I can find from the major Danish manufacturer Velfac has a total U-value of 0.82 W/°K/m² [1]. It's a triple-glazed window with argon and coatings.

A typical insulated thin (100mm) wood-frame wall, i.e. the sort you'd use if you were building a summer house in Sweden has a U-value of 0.4 W/°K/m² [2], i.e. twice as good as the window above.

A typical rock- or glasswool insulated wood-frame wall for a modern year-round house has a U-value of 0.2 W or better, i.e. four times as good as the window above.

Wall that are so bad that they're roughly equivalent to the triple-glazed window above are something you'll mainly find in buildings from 50+ years ago, at least in Sweden. I expect Norway to be similar. [3]

'bjarneh' mentioned both triple- and quadruple-glazed windows. I've only seen quadruple used in noise-reduction applications, e.g. hotel next to a busy road. If you have a data sheet for one, it'd be interesting to see what the U-value is.

One of the posters above referred to 'R-value'. It's the reciprocal of the U-value. Wikipedia has good explanations of both, as well as typical values for windows and walls. [4,5]

References are mostly in Swedish, because the poster 'bjarneh' was talking about windows in Norway, so I wanted references for companies that actually sell things in Scandinavia.

[1] https://products-api.velfac.com/files/11644/VELFAC%20STANDAR...

[2] https://www.isover.se/hur-tjock-isolering-ska-man-ha-att-fa-....

[3] https://www.traguiden.se/konstruktion/konstruktiv-utformning...

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_transmittance

[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-value_(insulation)

Re: The Pretty Good House

#230

Post by thorin »

pilingual wrote: post #35
carabiner wrote: post #11

I'm looking at building a home as a first time home owner in the next few years. One thing I'm wondering is how many headaches can I avoid if I just choose an expensive builder and not try to haggle or save a buck at every turn? I just want a 2-bedroom, 1,000 sq ft bungalow and am willing to pay 60-70% more than the average $/sqft in my city if they do a good job. I'd rather have a nice small place rather than a huge…

Sometimes the builders are also the carpenters. I would go with one of those because they will do arguably the most important part right, and they will likely have worked with the foundation team before. Electricians and plumbers often have to be certified so there is less concern there. Getting educated so you can ask questions and observe that they properly seal the house for air and moisture is a good idea. PGH is…

This is probably true in the US, but in UK/Europe most buildings are made of brick/stone. People seem to think builders are dumb, but it's a very complicated job really if you are working on lots of different types of housing.
Post reply on HN