PHP in 2023 • Hacker News Board

Re: PHP in 2023

#121

Post by iillexial » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 1:28 PM UTC

tasuki wrote: post #107

impulser_ wrote: post #56

If you are thinking about building a web application, take a look at Laravel. I not a huge PHP user, but Laravel is always on the top of my list for building web applications. It's the greatest web framework to ever exists, even better than Rails IMHO. The ecosystem around Laravel is really incredible and unlike any other framework. They have libraries for every stage of a web application from taking payments all the…

> [Laravel]'s the greatest web framework to ever exists Back when I worked with PHP, we used Symfony and several coworkers very much looked down on Laravel. Symfony was modular and you could easily switch whichever component for your own by just implementing the interface and overriding the dependency injection thing. Word was that Laravel hardcoded many things and was less customisable. What is your take on this? In…

Laravel is great for prototyping and fast building. If you want to make a big application with Laravel, it's better to use Symfony-like approach with interfaces and DI (you can do it by using Laravel). What I personally do not like in Laravel is their ORM, too much magic calls involved.

Re: PHP in 2023

#122

Post by BuckyBeaver » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 1:28 PM UTC

spiderfarmer wrote: post #119

BuckyBeaver wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So do you just not use Laravel’s ORM?

I do use it, but for some of the more complex queries I use the Raw SQL part of it.

OK, good to know that you can do both.

Re: PHP in 2023

#123

Post by GeneralTspoon » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 1:29 PM UTC

zeptonix wrote: post #76

dubcanada wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter what happens, anytime something good PHP is mentioned the thread always turns into a fight. Why can't we just stop gate keeping programming languages and let people enjoy them. PHP gets tore apart all year long, and 1 nice article comes out and everyone jumps on it like it's preaching Delphi or VBA. PHP has continued to done wonders for me, I continue to write huge apps in it, I continue to love it.…

Everyone's at a different step in their journey. But I do agree if you're building stuff then exactly, who cares? End of the day it's definitely about what's built, not how.

> Everyone's at a different step in their journey.

Text book example of being condescending.

Re: PHP in 2023

#124

Post by jt2190 » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 1:29 PM UTC

BuckyBeaver wrote: post #110

impulser_ wrote: post #56

If you are thinking about building a web application, take a look at Laravel. I not a huge PHP user, but Laravel is always on the top of my list for building web applications. It's the greatest web framework to ever exists, even better than Rails IMHO. The ecosystem around Laravel is really incredible and unlike any other framework. They have libraries for every stage of a web application from taking payments all the…

Looking at the Laravel site, I’m concerned about Laravel’s reliance on an ORM. Not only because ORMs are widely derided, but because I have a legacy MySQL DB and PHP 5 project I want to resurrect. I’m down to rewrite the server, but how do I restore a database full of user data with Laravel?

Laravel is “linked” together via a combination of Composer dependency manager and Dependency Injection. You can easily customize your setup to remove the dependency on Eloquent ORM and use something else.

Re: PHP in 2023

#125

Post by kugelblitz » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 1:30 PM UTC

tasuki wrote: post #107

impulser_ wrote: post #56

If you are thinking about building a web application, take a look at Laravel. I not a huge PHP user, but Laravel is always on the top of my list for building web applications. It's the greatest web framework to ever exists, even better than Rails IMHO. The ecosystem around Laravel is really incredible and unlike any other framework. They have libraries for every stage of a web application from taking payments all the…

> [Laravel]'s the greatest web framework to ever exists Back when I worked with PHP, we used Symfony and several coworkers very much looked down on Laravel. Symfony was modular and you could easily switch whichever component for your own by just implementing the interface and overriding the dependency injection thing. Word was that Laravel hardcoded many things and was less customisable. What is your take on this? In…

This is the big reason I use Symfony for most of my projects.

I do lots of refactoring and modernizing of legacy or non-scalable codebases as a freelancer; with Symfony you can replace it module by module and slowly implement the Symfony framework structure.

Through some configs, it can do dependency injection, event listener stuff, etc, but the framework is mostly glue around components.

With Laravel, you need to go "all-in", and you had to do things the Laravel way. If I strayed from that path, it would make things really difficult.

I still work on projects with either of the frameworks, but if I had a choice, it would almost always be Symfony.

Re: PHP in 2023

#126

Post by BuckyBeaver » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 1:32 PM UTC

cellover wrote: post #120

BuckyBeaver wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks! That’s happens to be just what I need to do: import pictures and related data.

Does your DB have a classic design? You can very easily map an existing DB with a fresh Laravel install, just write a couple Models, their relationships and you're almost set. I have been working with Laravel on a daily basis since 6 years and have never felt more efficient with code.

Not sure what you mean by classic, but I designed it manually to be queried with plain SQL. So I suspect the answer to your question is yes.

Thanks for the info!

Re: PHP in 2023

#127

Post by BuckyBeaver » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 1:33 PM UTC

jt2190 wrote: post #124

BuckyBeaver wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking at the Laravel site, I’m concerned about Laravel’s reliance on an ORM. Not only because ORMs are widely derided, but because I have a legacy MySQL DB and PHP 5 project I want to resurrect. I’m down to rewrite the server, but how do I restore a database full of user data with Laravel?

Laravel is “linked” together via a combination of Composer dependency manager and Dependency Injection. You can easily customize your setup to remove the dependency on Eloquent ORM and use something else.

Thanks!

Re: PHP in 2023

#128

Post by chippiewill » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 1:33 PM UTC

dmitriid wrote: post #93

zeptonix wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

isn't doing too well

mysql_connect has been heavily discouraged for at least 15 years now.

PHP 4.1 came out with mysqli in 2001. So you could argue that mysql_ functions have been bad practice for over 20.

Re: PHP in 2023

#129

Post by dpcx » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 1:36 PM UTC

tasuki wrote: post #107

impulser_ wrote: post #56

If you are thinking about building a web application, take a look at Laravel. I not a huge PHP user, but Laravel is always on the top of my list for building web applications. It's the greatest web framework to ever exists, even better than Rails IMHO. The ecosystem around Laravel is really incredible and unlike any other framework. They have libraries for every stage of a web application from taking payments all the…

> [Laravel]'s the greatest web framework to ever exists Back when I worked with PHP, we used Symfony and several coworkers very much looked down on Laravel. Symfony was modular and you could easily switch whichever component for your own by just implementing the interface and overriding the dependency injection thing. Word was that Laravel hardcoded many things and was less customisable. What is your take on this? In…

I think that people believe they'll switch out components more than they really end up doing, but in Laravel, you can override things within Service Providers, and then use the built-in dependency injection to get the thing you want.

Re: PHP in 2023

#130

Post by kugelblitz » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 1:37 PM UTC

makeitdouble wrote: post #88

GeneralTspoon wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I used to work way back in the day on PHP too, This is your issue - PHP Modern PHP (with a framework like Laravel or Symfony) is probably one of the most productive ways to build web applications. > It's not beautifully well thought-out the way Python is. This is definitely an interesting take... Python hasn't even solved package management yet. And the 2.7 => 3 migration is probably the most famous example of maki…

I'm on PHP 8 and I feel the same as parent. Sure, there's been a lot of progress since the PHP 5 days, but the core of the language has been left mostly untouched by design, and we haven't seen the kind of drastic moves like JS moving to ES6 syntax. It's a matter of taste, so there's no absolutr truth. I hate PHP's function and property access syntax differenciation and wildly prefer ruby's approach or instance. And…

Uhm, how about PHP attributes, getting rid of comments / annotations? Named arguments? Constructor property promotion? Readonly properties (8.1) / classes (8.2)? Arrow functions or typed properties (both 7.4)?

I'd say those are really cool things. Especially as a web developer, there's just so much boilerplate I can get rid of since using 8.0+.