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The Pretty Good House

prettygoodhouse.org

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Re: The Pretty Good House

#161

Post by checkyoursudo »

Keyframe wrote: post #52
carabiner wrote: post #11

I'm looking at building a home as a first time home owner in the next few years. One thing I'm wondering is how many headaches can I avoid if I just choose an expensive builder and not try to haggle or save a buck at every turn? I just want a 2-bedroom, 1,000 sq ft bungalow and am willing to pay 60-70% more than the average $/sqft in my city if they do a good job. I'd rather have a nice small place rather than a huge…

Not sure where you are, but prefabs, especially panelized ones are popular choice recent years in europe. Customizable layouts, fast to build, affordable, great on energy consumption, better in earthquakes etc. Downsides would be that foundations and roof are built the same as traditional build, have to be careful what you nail through the walls (US people will be familiar with it since drywalls..), and statics-wise…

> fast to build

Although, note, the final time to turnkey may not always be much faster, depending on the market conditions.

The traditional builders told us about 24 months at current lead times.

The modular builders told us 15-20 months, but two separate modular builders told us that anyone claiming less than 18 months is probably lying and reality is closer to 24 months even for modular.

Re: The Pretty Good House

#162

Post by JohnAaronNelson »

carabiner wrote: post #11

I'm looking at building a home as a first time home owner in the next few years. One thing I'm wondering is how many headaches can I avoid if I just choose an expensive builder and not try to haggle or save a buck at every turn? I just want a 2-bedroom, 1,000 sq ft bungalow and am willing to pay 60-70% more than the average $/sqft in my city if they do a good job. I'd rather have a nice small place rather than a huge…

In my experience, price is not correlated to value with tradespeople. Price is usually correlated to honesty. It’s easy to get quotes for jobs that have a huge range in price and it’s often the least expensive that will do the work right. They don’t quote you what their rate is. They quote you what they think they can get out of you. The price is correlated to how much money you have. The quality is correlated to how much you know and pay attention.

Re: The Pretty Good House

#163

Post by Yujf »

Y-bar wrote: post #155
michpoch wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting! Not sure what do you mean by "flatlands". Which country/region?

Øresund Region Edit: Stucco plaster on wooden core is somewhat common here, which maybe makes it look like more houses are masonry core than actually is?

I think generally in the nordics they use wood a lot. In countries like Belgium, Netherlands, Germany and France wood is not used a lot

Re: The Pretty Good House

#164

Post by entropyie »

CalRobert wrote: post #153
entropyie wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our Architect in Ireland did this for us. He found the builders and also hired a QS and other people to manage cost. It was not at all cheap but well worth it as we were in no position to supervise ourselves. Even for a modest build, it was well worth the cost. I can't understand how people can spend $$$ on building a new house but try to go cheap on the Architect... All you get is a McMansion.

I just had a house built in Ireland. Our architect was fairly cheap but it was that or nothing. It was a kit house and the builders still half-assed most things (they HATED the idea of making a house reasonably airtight for one) so I've been cleaning up their mess.

I hear you, one would expect a kit house to be fairly straightforward, without needing too much input from an architect. Sorry to hear about your builders (though not surprised). What I had in mind when I made my comment though was my parent's neighbourhood in rural Ireland. A modest bungalow in a field that is now dwarfed by huge McMansions 3x the size every 300m in a strip 10km long. Each one massive, asymmetrical, uniquely ugly, and obviously sketched out on the back of a cigarette packet rather than designed by a competent architect. Bonus points for a huge set of gates with fancy piers and walls, because god forbid any of your neighbours might swing by casually and say hello. But hurray for the tight-knit rural community right? /rant

Re: The Pretty Good House

#165

Post by Dylanfm »

duckmysick wrote: post #98

I'm curious about rain screens. One of the pages says "Perhaps the single most important thing you can do for your walls is to include a rain screen, which is like venting for your walls." How does that work exactly? Here's how I understand it: I would have to cover an entire building with some sort of a skeleton (layer) of wood, with an air gap in between. And it will cause the rain drops to slide down to the ground…

I think the exterior insulation is kind of taking the place of the cladding or rain screen here. I suspect it also as an air gap. But I suppose you could affix a rain screen to it, although I am not sure if that's worthwhile.

There's some more info here: https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/wiki/Rainscreen

I hear the term "rain screen" fairly often to describe open cladding styles. Scroll down to "timber cladding profiles" and then "open cladding": https://www.thousandhuts.org/walls Rather than a more closed timber cladding, like shiplap or board-on-board, there would be a gap, maybe 8mm between the cladding boards. Rain can get in, but with an effective membrane beneath, it's waterproof. And there's always ventilation, so it dries out more quickly. If the wall is built for it, the membrane should be vapor permeable and allow the building to "breath".

I'm not sure if this is as appropriate for your local buildings if they have exterior polystyrene etc. Where I am in northern Scotland many of the buildings from the past several decades are timber frame inside + cavity + a wall of concrete blocks. Those concrete blocks are basically the cladding. They have the same renders as you linked on them. While a lot of people are skipping the blockwork and just cladding the building with timber or metal instead.

Re: The Pretty Good House

#166

Post by ed_balls »

michpoch wrote: post #139
Y-bar wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't most single- or few-family homes made of wood? I'm living in in the farming belt (i.e. not the actual forested parts of our country) and over 80% of these houses are wooden. It's mostly apartment buildings over three floors being built using cement.

Not in Europe, besides some old mountains huts. It's always a very strange feeling when I see how in the american home-reconstruction TV shows they're tearing the walls and it's all wood. Same case when I see the effects of hurricanes... it all feels very fragile comparing to what we have here.

Houses in US are made of wood because:

- wood is cheap in US (historically was 10x cheaper)

- there is a lot of land, plots are big, so you can fit everything in a single level

- wood is better for handling earthquakes, brick walls cracks

- cultural (wood has always been much better for construction in US)

Re: The Pretty Good House

#167

Post by maxerickson »

poutine wrote: post #19
galenko wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. That’s still a lottery and you are basically saying I’m paying more, so I expect a better service. This does not guarantee results. At all. What you want is a third party. Someone who understands the trade and the codes and will check in on the building site daily and will make sure everything is being done correctly. And if it’s not, will stop work and put everyone in their place. I frankly have no idea what the…

This is what a builder would do in North America, they're the general contractor and will generally budget for you, manage the project and the trades. They'll ensure quality and be your point of contact. Typically where I'm at they charge 15% of the total time and materials of the build.

My expectation is that the general contractor's attitude towards quality would be completely random. Some are gonna be great and some are gonna cut every corner they think they can hide from you. And then the buy side of the market isn't sophisticated enough for it to be easy to identify which is which.

And like for renovations, lots will bid the easy project and do it as fast as they can vs ensuring that anything that comes up is addressed well.

Re: The Pretty Good House

#168

Post by HPsquared »

dan-robertson wrote: post #129
bradknowles wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In triple and quadruple glazing, you frequently don't get three or four layers of actual glass. The two outer layers are still glass, but the inner layers are usually thin sheets of plastic, and the voids are frequently filled with noble gasses like Argon for improved insulation. Although I have seen in Alaska where they do double glazing windows on the outside as storm windows, then about six inches to a foot inside…

Somehow I’d thought the voids were usually evacuated but that doesn’t really make sense with the pressure involved. Apparently it is possible to have a vacuum inside but uncommon and harder to manufacture (and you need support pillars to separate the panes). https://www.glassonweb.com/article/vacuum-insulating-glass-p...

You'd still have radiative heat transfer, even if there is a vacuum between the panes. For a given budget, you're probably better off adding more regular panes.

Re: The Pretty Good House

#169

Post by HPsquared »

joris wrote: post #123
bradknowles wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In triple and quadruple glazing, you frequently don't get three or four layers of actual glass. The two outer layers are still glass, but the inner layers are usually thin sheets of plastic, and the voids are frequently filled with noble gasses like Argon for improved insulation. Although I have seen in Alaska where they do double glazing windows on the outside as storm windows, then about six inches to a foot inside…

That probably depends on where you are. Here in Amsterdam, our triple glazing is made out of all actual glass. In our house it’s made out of four 6-mm sheets of glass actually. So one double sheet that’s a sandwich with a glued layer of foil in between (like a windshield), used as a security component either on the outside (anti break-in) or on the upper floors on the inside as a way to prevent falling through the wi…

Having more layers of actual glass helps with sound insulation also, probably more of a concern in Amsterdam than in Norway.

Re: The Pretty Good House

#170

Post by prepend »

bjarneh wrote: post #88

> Even the best windows and doors on the market perform much worse than even an average wall New windows here in Norway are often triple or quadruple glazed, and they have a pretty good R-value; so they are not that much worse than average walls at least.

But aren’t average walls in Norway much more insulated? So the statement is still true?

What is the R-value of a Norwegian wall?

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