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Boris Yeltsin's visit to a suburban Houston supermarket in 1989 (2016)

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Re: Boris Yeltsin's visit to a suburban Houston supermarket in 1989 (2016)

#281

Post by jjeaff »

kergonath wrote: post #221
winrid wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it xenophobic to call it "Chinese junk"? The cheap junk is designed here in the US to be as cheap as possible and break as soon as possible. We did that. Not them. They're just building it.

It is also xenophobic to believe that Chinese are not able to design junk by themselves. They have a huge internal market and have a lot of reasons to do so. Also, a lot of the junk in question is white label, with pretty much no western engineer or designer involved even when it is sold in the US or Europe. But the bottom line is, it is junk that comes from China, ergo Chinese junk.

Much of the really well made stuff that we buy here in the US also comes from China. They are now quite capable of very high end manufacturing as well.

Re: Boris Yeltsin's visit to a suburban Houston supermarket in 1989 (2016)

#282

Post by [deleted] »

ubermonkey wrote: post #9

I dunno about Yeltsin and the Houston store, but I do know this: I went on a student tour of the USSR as a college student in 1991, arranged through my University (U of Alabama). I was getting a minor in Russian language, and it seemed like a fun trip. It actually got MORE fun because in the run-up to the trip (in spring, 91) there was some dissent in the USSR and many parents wouldn't let their kids go. In order to…

[deleted]

Re: Boris Yeltsin's visit to a suburban Houston supermarket in 1989 (2016)

#283

Post by wrp »

winrid wrote: post #219
pavlov wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now the challenge for us is that we’re still stuck thinking stores full of Chinese junk is the pinnacle of civilization and we’re unable to know any better despite accumulating evidence of planetary destruction.

Isn't it xenophobic to call it "Chinese junk"? The cheap junk is designed here in the US to be as cheap as possible and break as soon as possible. We did that. Not them. They're just building it.

China is in the special position of having both a great industrial capacity for complex products and at the same time being the main source of complex products that are poorly designed/constructed. So referring to "Chinese junk" identifies an objective economic phenomenon and is not simply a product of prejudice.

"Chinese junk" can also be used as a term of criticism for a tendency among Chinese suppliers to dishonestly skimp on quality. Hearing of the many troubles American companies have with suppliers in China, this seems to be a valid criticism. However, having worked in the Middle East, I can testify that this problem can be as bad or worse elsewhere.

It is noted than Japan had a similar reputation in the early 20th century, and I think Switzerland also had a reputation for poor quality in the 19th century. In both cases, the governments started programs to change things. There is desire within China to change their reputation. I've read that Alibaba is actively trying not to be seen as a venue for selling "Chinese junk."

Re: Boris Yeltsin's visit to a suburban Houston supermarket in 1989 (2016)

#284

Post by ginja »

nivenkos wrote: post #267
Jensson wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm from Sweden, not USA. I think there are many problems with USA, but it isn't capitalism at least, I'd say the major problem is that their democracy doesn't properly represent the will of the people. Sweden isn't perfect, but I don't see many countries that does a better job, and Sweden is very capitalist, we voted about going towards communist but people didn't want to. Instead we have a strong capitalism, but wi…

The issue with Sweden is that it taxes work, not wealth. You easily hit the 56% rate on income tax and even the poorest workers pay 25% VAT, meanwhile wealthy landowners and shareholders pay no inheritance tax and minimal capital gains and property tax. So it impedes social mobility and encourages hard workers to move abroad - this has been made much worse with the refugee crisis too, as they're practically discourag…

Capital gains tax in Sweden is 30% and property tax is around 0.75% IIRC. I don't think they are that low - they're higher than most of Europe in fact.

And VAT is a double-edged sword... It's the only tax that essentially nobody can avoid, and thus the only tax that also applies to people who are already wealthy and could otherwise live their life without paying any tax.

Re: Boris Yeltsin's visit to a suburban Houston supermarket in 1989 (2016)

#285

Post by avgcorrection »

thriftwy wrote: post #253
avgcorrection wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Tsar was a shorthand for how undeveloped Russia was.

I'm not sure why it is a shorthand. A wide range of countries have monarchy, such as Belguim or Sweden. There are also a lot of piss-poor non-monarchies. Overall you sound like a person of socialist education who never evaluated their upbringing critically.

I don’t care what I sound like to you.

Re: Boris Yeltsin's visit to a suburban Houston supermarket in 1989 (2016)

#286

Post by FpUser »

valleyer wrote: post #220
winrid wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it xenophobic to call it "Chinese junk"? The cheap junk is designed here in the US to be as cheap as possible and break as soon as possible. We did that. Not them. They're just building it.

I think it's a bit harsh to call them xenophobic, but I did have a similar thought recently. What's worse, manufacturing cheap junk for pay, or filling your home with cheap junk?

>"What's worse, manufacturing cheap junk for pay, or filling your home with cheap junk?"

Thanks to modern economy in Canada for example people with median and below income currently can't afford to buy anything but junk. Same goes for quality food. Price of accommodation, food and many other things have skyrocketed.

This is what is "worse"

Re: Boris Yeltsin's visit to a suburban Houston supermarket in 1989 (2016)

#287

Post by em500 »

winrid wrote: post #230
valleyer wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's a bit harsh to call them xenophobic, but I did have a similar thought recently. What's worse, manufacturing cheap junk for pay, or filling your home with cheap junk?

Maybe it was harsh. However I think it makes the Chinese people look bad, where they aren't really to blame. The CCP keeps labor prices low, and we exploit it, and then we sit here and complain the stuff they make is junk.

Labor prices are much lower in India, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Vietnam, Philippines among others, than they are in China. So there is a bit more to the story than "the CCP keeps labor prices low".

Re: Boris Yeltsin's visit to a suburban Houston supermarket in 1989 (2016)

#288

Post by midasuni »

chupasaurus wrote: post #256
midasuni wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the 1980s the internet was hardly in every home globally either.

The difference is that there was a dozen of scientific institutes and that was it. I.e. there was no Internet connectivity in my city (12th by population in Russia at the time) until 1994.

I wonder how that would compare to South Africa, Brazil, Indonesia, etc

In SA our office DSL in 2010 had a cap of 500MB a month.

Re: Boris Yeltsin's visit to a suburban Houston supermarket in 1989 (2016)

#289

Post by SturgeonsLaw »

kortilla wrote: post #273
4ad wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cars have never been more reliable and safer, however "better" is a woefully underspecified and subjective thing. Things I don't like about modern cars: they all look the same, crappy capacitive controls and touchscreens inside the car, constant tracking mandated by law, much harder to work on the car if you are a car enthusiast. To me, a classic car from the 80s, or even early 90s is a far nicer vehicle to be in and…

> constant tracking mandated by law I hate this. What is the year that this started?

YMMV (heh) depending on make and model, but as a rough guide, mid 2010s is when cellular modems and automotive telemetry started to become commonplace

Re: Boris Yeltsin's visit to a suburban Houston supermarket in 1989 (2016)

#290

Post by FpUser »

wrp wrote: post #283
winrid wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it xenophobic to call it "Chinese junk"? The cheap junk is designed here in the US to be as cheap as possible and break as soon as possible. We did that. Not them. They're just building it.

China is in the special position of having both a great industrial capacity for complex products and at the same time being the main source of complex products that are poorly designed/constructed. So referring to "Chinese junk" identifies an objective economic phenomenon and is not simply a product of prejudice. "Chinese junk" can also be used as a term of criticism for a tendency among Chinese suppliers to dishones…

>"being the main source of complex products that are poorly designed/constructed"

It is also the main source of complex products of high quality. Problem is the price. Where it matters I buy industrial grade stuff for home use. It works for ages. But it also priced accordingly. Canadians with median income and below simply can not afford quality stuff.

Meanwhile, not sure about the rest of the world, but my personal impression is that in Canada general public mostly thinks that Chinese only steal, copy and produce nothing but junk and are not capable of anything else. So yes it is racist / xenophobe attitude in my opinion.

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