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Long Covid: major findings, mechanisms and recommendations

nature.com

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Re: Long Covid: major findings, mechanisms and recommendations

#211

Post by journey_16162 »

dTal wrote: post #135
RandomWorker wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sucks. My experience was to get back to training fairly soon (2 weeks after fever went away). After that training session I knew I should rest more and took an additional 2 weeks off. Then built back up my regular training starting at 10% volume and increasing at 10% increases each week. After 3 months I was back to regular volume. My suggestion is that everyone take at least two weeks off, and build up volume v…

If you were "training" 2 weeks after the fever went away, congratulations - you didn't have long covid. You cannot exercise your way out of Long Covid, or other postviral fatigue syndromes - it presents identically to Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. Any attempt to exercise - even something as small as a short walk, or in severe cases merely taking a shower - results in a hard crash that feels completely unlike exercise fat…

I think there's something in-between though.

I have been sick for 1.5 weeks (which is an extreme time for me by itself), afterwards I did not feel quite normal and got right back to being sick just after a few days, progressively getting worse. After another 1.5 weeks, I almost felt normal, only super-tired, I got to rest all day, only to wake up in the night feeling sick again. Another 5 days went by, to get back to the point where I feel tired but not sick and again, I went back to feeling generally unwell, although it may be better than the last time. It goes for 4 weeks now.

Most recently, I woke up, felt sick right there in the morning, feeling like I should rest rather than work but with great mental exertion I overrode it and carried a full day, with little to no rest, every minute pushing against that feeling and doing some light exercise too. At the end of the day, I felt like I did not sleep the entire night and as I went to sleep, I slept like a stone. The day after I got that tiredness feeling without feeling sick I wrote about earlier - which felt like progress.

I don't have extreme tiredness like you describe, but something is clearly wrong and it cut my weekly work capacity by half. I never had something like. I also have been hearing about friends of friends also feeling unwell for 1 month or 2 months.

Re: Long Covid: major findings, mechanisms and recommendations

#212

Post by journey_16162 »

jupp0r wrote: post #66
RandomWorker wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sucks. My experience was to get back to training fairly soon (2 weeks after fever went away). After that training session I knew I should rest more and took an additional 2 weeks off. Then built back up my regular training starting at 10% volume and increasing at 10% increases each week. After 3 months I was back to regular volume. My suggestion is that everyone take at least two weeks off, and build up volume v…

It's kind if important whether you develop long covid or not. If you don't then you don't need a long break, if you do, you could be out for months or forever.

It's been 4 weeks since I got sick and I still feel tired and unwell, but it's not anything as extreme as not being able to take a short walk, I even did some lightweight cardio-type exercise and there are days where I can be working almost all day (pushing through). I'm not sure what I should do and I will try to research it, but I feel like I have to push as much as I can while allowing more rest (i.e. 10h/day sleep, 1h nap in the mid day) until I'm well and trying do some lightweight cardio every day and a short walk. Reading the comments I have some fears that I could make worse / permanent though.

Re: Long Covid: major findings, mechanisms and recommendations

#213

Post by journey_16162 »

eismcc wrote: post #149
nradov wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the active ingredient of that supplement?

Liver Cleanse Detox & Repair Formula - Herbal Liver Support Supplement with Milk Thistle Dandelion Root Organic Turmeric and Artichoke Extract for Liver Health - Silymarin Milk Thistle Detox Capsules https://a.co/d/i9QCiCV

> Pure zinc oxide - Choline -Silymarin Milk Thistle Extract - Beet powder - Artichoke Extract - Chanca Piedra Extract - Dandelion root extract

Re: Long Covid: major findings, mechanisms and recommendations

#214

Post by groby_b »

roenxi wrote: post #5

As always, it is difficult to assess this sort of thing without a reference to the flu. As far as I can tell, in daily life we are continuously encountering people with various chronic problems and systemically under-calling the impact of them. It is a total coincidence if a body is functioning at full capacity. If COVID increases the hazard ratios there isn't much I can do. As far as I can tell, everyone is going to…

> If COVID increases the hazard ratios there isn't much I can do. As far as I can tell, everyone is going to get COVID. There is no avoiding that.

You could wear a mask. You could, if your profession allows it, work from home. You could avoid large social gatherings. You could - if you aren't yet - get your vaxx up to date.

Less direct, and with a longer time horizon, but more lasting impact: You could lobby for clean air laws. You could lobby for easier/cheaper access to testing as well as a better data collection to know where we are. You could lobby that we don't just abandon Operation Warp Speed, but get our shit together and invest in research on mucosal pan-corona vaccines.

> It would be interesting to know how much worse it is than a typical flu though, just for academic interest.

Well, if you choose to do nothing "because everybody gets it", it likely won't stay academical.

Re: Long Covid: major findings, mechanisms and recommendations

#215

Post by groby_b »

dehrmann wrote: post #109
TechBro8615 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've also not been infected that I'm aware of, although there were a couple episodes that might have been Covid. I'm tempted to pay for a blood test to check for antibodies, it only costs about $60.

Won't the vaccine trigger the production of antibodies?

Yes, but there are tests that differentiate between vaccine and Covid antibodies. (search keyword: "nucleocapsid antibody test")

Re: Long Covid: major findings, mechanisms and recommendations

#216

Post by dsjoerg »

ETH_start wrote: post #114

This is a very poor analysis. Its assertion that "long COVID is an often debilitating illness that occurs in at least 10% of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) infections" is based on a study that neither accounts for misattribution of symptoms to COVID, nor the psychosocial effects of a COVID infection, e.g. the anxiety related to getting COVID, the isolation required of those who contract…

Certainly misattribution explains _some_ amount of what people think is "Long Covid". It's very hard to say how much, because "Long Covid" itself lacks a proper definition.

However, that study is not the best evidence available. I agree that the original study could be improved, but the Jama Network paper doesn't account for the fact that many people test negative for Covid antibodies after a true infection (as explained in the original study).

We can't start talking about the true prevalence of Long Covid until we have a sensible definition.

Re: Long Covid: major findings, mechanisms and recommendations

#217

Post by ETH_start »

nikolay wrote: post #210
ETH_start wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or people can just acquire immunity through exposure.

You can't acquire meaningful immunity against such a highly contagious and rapidly mutating RNA virus! After measures were removed and people stopped wearing face masks, the phylogenic tree went bonkers [0]! [0]: https://nextstrain.org/ncov/gisaid/global/6m

Yes you can, that's why elderly people who get influenza strains that they were exposed to as children are much less likely to succumb to it than those who didn't. Lack of full lasting immunity doesn't mean zero immunity.

You can't avoid exposure to a highly contagious respiratory virus. You can't spend the rest of your life masked. And evolution would have make us capable of adapting to being able to handle such viruses. It's not like COVID-19 would be the end of the human race without indefinite masking/social-distancing. Viruses like COVID-19 have emerged innumerable times in the past. Without an innate ability to acquire some level of immunity to such viruses, we wouldn't exist.

COVID-19 was only different in that in 2019, at risk demographics like the elderly population, had no prior exposure to it.

Re: Long Covid: major findings, mechanisms and recommendations

#218

Post by nikolay »

ETH_start wrote: post #217
nikolay wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't acquire meaningful immunity against such a highly contagious and rapidly mutating RNA virus! After measures were removed and people stopped wearing face masks, the phylogenic tree went bonkers [0]! [0]: https://nextstrain.org/ncov/gisaid/global/6m

Yes you can, that's why elderly people who get influenza strains that they were exposed to as children are much less likely to succumb to it than those who didn't. Lack of full lasting immunity doesn't mean zero immunity. You can't avoid exposure to a highly contagious respiratory virus. You can't spend the rest of your life masked. And evolution would have make us capable of adapting to being able to handle such vir…

Refer to the phylogeny of SARS-CoV-2 and compare it to the influenza virus! Thanks!

Re: Long Covid: major findings, mechanisms and recommendations

#219

Post by ETH_start »

nikolay wrote: post #218
ETH_start wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes you can, that's why elderly people who get influenza strains that they were exposed to as children are much less likely to succumb to it than those who didn't. Lack of full lasting immunity doesn't mean zero immunity. You can't avoid exposure to a highly contagious respiratory virus. You can't spend the rest of your life masked. And evolution would have make us capable of adapting to being able to handle such vir…

Refer to the phylogeny of SARS-CoV-2 and compare it to the influenza virus! Thanks!

You're mythologizing SARS-CoV-2.

Re: Long Covid: major findings, mechanisms and recommendations

#220

Post by nikolay »

ETH_start wrote: post #219
nikolay wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Refer to the phylogeny of SARS-CoV-2 and compare it to the influenza virus! Thanks!

You're mythologizing SARS-CoV-2.

I am not - it's the fact being the most contagious virus known to science.
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