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Boris Yeltsin's visit to a suburban Houston supermarket in 1989 (2016)

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Re: Boris Yeltsin's visit to a suburban Houston supermarket in 1989 (2016)

#141

Post by akhilpotla »

ubermonkey wrote: post #9

I dunno about Yeltsin and the Houston store, but I do know this: I went on a student tour of the USSR as a college student in 1991, arranged through my University (U of Alabama). I was getting a minor in Russian language, and it seemed like a fun trip. It actually got MORE fun because in the run-up to the trip (in spring, 91) there was some dissent in the USSR and many parents wouldn't let their kids go. In order to…

My dad moved to the US in 99 (he grew up in a town of about 50k people at the time). He said he was shocked people would stop for him when crossing the street, and he was amazed he could by a 1/2 gallon of ice cream for a couple bucks. Previously, he might have had ice cream once a year. He was also impressed and made happy by the abundance of meat and milk.

Funnily he was quite disappointed at the fruit situation coming from a tropical country, but that was more about freshness than quantity.

Re: Boris Yeltsin's visit to a suburban Houston supermarket in 1989 (2016)

#142

Post by slothtrop »

PheonixPharts wrote: post #135
refurb wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Capitalism has been responsible for lifting hundreds of millions out of poverty. Communism, or any other system, can’t make that same claim. Unless you have an alternative, your claims of exploration will fall on deaf ears.

“lifting out of poverty” is defined in terms of consumption. A family living on a farm and providing most of their own needs, living sustainably for generations, is by most definitions “living in poverty” because they consume very little. Now if you strip that family of their land and force them to work in factories their consumption goes way up since they no longer are able to support themselves. That family has now…

The poorest countries account for the least amount of trade globally. They don't have factories, but I imagine you would contrive that owning next to nothing and teetering on the edge of extreme poverty is preferable to working in a factory. That type of work is what created the 4 Asian Tigers, seems ridiculous to knock it.

You're romanticizing primitivism.

Re: Boris Yeltsin's visit to a suburban Houston supermarket in 1989 (2016)

#143

Post by [deleted] »

advisedwang wrote: post #11

It's naive to imagine Yeltsin's mind was really changed by a spontaneous visit. He didn't have intelligence on what a US supermarket was like? The premiere of a superpower just randomly decided to visit a grocery store? No. Yeltsin was contemplating reforms and changes and wanted to collect a political tool he could later user if needed. He knew exactly how this visit would go, and it was intended so he could use it…

[deleted]

Re: Boris Yeltsin's visit to a suburban Houston supermarket in 1989 (2016)

#144

Post by MomoXenosaga »

ubermonkey wrote: post #9

I dunno about Yeltsin and the Houston store, but I do know this: I went on a student tour of the USSR as a college student in 1991, arranged through my University (U of Alabama). I was getting a minor in Russian language, and it seemed like a fun trip. It actually got MORE fun because in the run-up to the trip (in spring, 91) there was some dissent in the USSR and many parents wouldn't let their kids go. In order to…

This story is exactly how Europeans felt in the 1950s. Our supermarkets come from the US.

It saddens me that the leftist clowns of today have forgotten the importance of material wealth.

Re: Boris Yeltsin's visit to a suburban Houston supermarket in 1989 (2016)

#145

Post by FpUser »

mlyle wrote: post #125
nerdbert wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People were not detained in the USA for using the wrong nomenclature to describe the Iraq invasion, and yet that was also an unspeakably cruel, venal war of cynical aggression knowingly perpetrated on laughably false pretenses. To this day roughly half of Americans think it was the right move - https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/03/19/iraq-war-co... So I don't think factors like that are so good at separating…

The thing is, there's vanishingly few "good invasions". Even fewer when you're intent on annexing territory and capturing resources and large numbers of people. The logic error you've committed above: Stifling dissent about the war with authoritarian measures may not be a necessary condition for an invasion to be bad, but it still can be a hint that the invasion is bad. Rejecting the territorial integrity of the coun…

>"Even fewer when you're intent on annexing territory and capturing resources and large numbers of people."

As ugly as it sounds I would actually prefer that the US had annexed countries it had invaded. This way it would at least be responsible and people would leave in more decent place than before. Instead they came in, murdered and otherwise fucked people and then left without much remorse and repercussion.

Re: Boris Yeltsin's visit to a suburban Houston supermarket in 1989 (2016)

#146

Post by int_19h »

thriftwy wrote: post #98
avgcorrection wrote: post #56

The author seems to believe that Yeltsin was a moron who thought that the most advanced capitalist country in history would possibly be comparable to a country that belonged to the Tsar less than one hundred years prior. Well, maybe he was an idiot.

Well the UK belongs to a King to that day, how does it make it any less of a developed country? You seem to greatly downplay the historic Russia.

The historic pre-Bolshevik Russia was nothing to boast about, either. Just look at literacy rate or percentage of rural population.

Re: Boris Yeltsin's visit to a suburban Houston supermarket in 1989 (2016)

#147

Post by MomoXenosaga »

rippercushions wrote: post #74
alamortsubite wrote: post #12

This sounds apocryphal. I don't doubt Yeltsin was impressed by his visit to the supermarket, but by 1989 the writing was more than on the wall for the demise of the USSR. I imagine it'd be more accurate to say that Yeltsin was excited by the prospects of a transformed economy, seeing the prosperity of the U.S. firsthand, rather than his visit being any kind of tipping point in the Soviet Union's downfall. Anyway, Rob…

Straight from the horse's mouth: > In Yeltsin’s own autobiography, he wrote about the experience at Randall’s, which shattered his view of communism

Fascinating how Deng Xiaoping had the exact same epiphany visiting Singapore.

Re: Boris Yeltsin's visit to a suburban Houston supermarket in 1989 (2016)

#148

Post by aeternum »

avgcorrection wrote: post #58
ubermonkey wrote: post #9

I dunno about Yeltsin and the Houston store, but I do know this: I went on a student tour of the USSR as a college student in 1991, arranged through my University (U of Alabama). I was getting a minor in Russian language, and it seemed like a fun trip. It actually got MORE fun because in the run-up to the trip (in spring, 91) there was some dissent in the USSR and many parents wouldn't let their kids go. In order to…

> Then he saw the bananas. He really wanted bananas. He wouldn't ask for bananas. So I grabbed a bunch and put them in the basket. And then I told Andrei and Volodya about Banana Republics.

How do you explain the success of the capitalist zones in China relative to the rest of the country with this worldview that the benefits of capitalism must come from exploiting others?

Re: Boris Yeltsin's visit to a suburban Houston supermarket in 1989 (2016)

#149

Post by asveikau »

ubermonkey wrote: post #9

I dunno about Yeltsin and the Houston store, but I do know this: I went on a student tour of the USSR as a college student in 1991, arranged through my University (U of Alabama). I was getting a minor in Russian language, and it seemed like a fun trip. It actually got MORE fun because in the run-up to the trip (in spring, 91) there was some dissent in the USSR and many parents wouldn't let their kids go. In order to…

Russia's poor are still not very well taken care of under capitalism. Witness all the Russian soldiers in Ukraine being impressed with washing machines and stealing them.

Re: Boris Yeltsin's visit to a suburban Houston supermarket in 1989 (2016)

#150

Post by tpmoney »

PheonixPharts wrote: post #135
refurb wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Capitalism has been responsible for lifting hundreds of millions out of poverty. Communism, or any other system, can’t make that same claim. Unless you have an alternative, your claims of exploration will fall on deaf ears.

“lifting out of poverty” is defined in terms of consumption. A family living on a farm and providing most of their own needs, living sustainably for generations, is by most definitions “living in poverty” because they consume very little. Now if you strip that family of their land and force them to work in factories their consumption goes way up since they no longer are able to support themselves. That family has now…

Lifting out of poverty is also defined in terms of "not starving to death because the winter was too long or cold", "not losing a half a years labor and food because a tornado hit your field", "not having to do manual labor 12 hours a day" and yes "access to material wealth" like indoor plumbing, labor saving devices like washing machines, and the ability to send your children to be educated instead of needing them as additional physical labor when they're old enough. Access to modern medical care and medications. I know some people enjoy farming, and enjoy the rough life. Me personally I'm glad that I don't have to plan months in advance to heat my house for the winter, can obtain literally any food I can imagine within 30 minutes and obtain enough food to feed a family for a month with little more than 40 hours of labor and a 1 hour shipping trip.
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