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Heat pumps of the 1800s are becoming the technology of the future

knowablemagazine.org

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Re: Heat pumps of the 1800s are becoming the technology of the future

#161
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ducts are dead. Ducts are still needed to circulate air, especially if you want to remove stale air (e.g., bathrooms, kitchen) and bring in (filtered) fresh air (to bedrooms).

Agree, ducts are wonderful! If you don't have ducts, go ductless for sure.

I paid real money to have my ducts removed. They cause issues installing comprehensive insulation and caused hot/cold spots on the ceiling.

Re: Heat pumps of the 1800s are becoming the technology of the future

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure mini splits are significantly more efficient today, with SCOP of above 5, so that seems unlikely?

I recently replaced my [central, ducted] heat pump, and the new one is rated with a 4.981 SCOP. It's fairly efficient, but not the most efficient on the market.

-40% for the duct heat loss

Re: Heat pumps of the 1800s are becoming the technology of the future

#163
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ducts are dead. Ducts are still needed to circulate air, especially if you want to remove stale air (e.g., bathrooms, kitchen) and bring in (filtered) fresh air (to bedrooms).

Not being snarky but why don't you just open the window for that? I have a CO2 detector that I believe is a reasonable proxy for stale air. When it goes above 1000 I simply open the windows. By the time I remember to close the windows the reading is almost always below 500.

Not to be snarky, but if the weather outdoors is uncomfortable enough to be using climate control, why would I want to open the window?

Re: Heat pumps of the 1800s are becoming the technology of the future

#164
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ducts are dead. Ducts are still needed to circulate air, especially if you want to remove stale air (e.g., bathrooms, kitchen) and bring in (filtered) fresh air (to bedrooms).

Not being snarky but why don't you just open the window for that? I have a CO2 detector that I believe is a reasonable proxy for stale air. When it goes above 1000 I simply open the windows. By the time I remember to close the windows the reading is almost always below 500.

Which CO2 detector do you have?

Re: Heat pumps of the 1800s are becoming the technology of the future

#165

Why can’t my whole home participate in this technology? It would seem an ok fit for things like freezers, refrigerators, hot water heaters, etc. When it’s freezing cold outside, it seems crazy that I warm the air of my house and then use electricity to keep the fridge cooler than the air I just heated. Someone needs to make a standard for moving heat/cool through all appliances in a house…

Devices are beginning to appear that can move the waste heat generated by home AC compressor into the pump loop for a swimming pool outside that same home, getting your pool heated for free by cooling your house, and your aircon cooling becoming much more efficient by using your swimming pool as a giant heat sink.

However unless the house was built, and / or the pool installed in a coincidentally fortunate configuration where the AC compressor and the pool filter pump are within a meter or two of each other, these devices cannot be used effectively due to impractical tolerances and insulation needed to mitigate losses from contact with the highly variable outdoor environment.

Re: Heat pumps of the 1800s are becoming the technology of the future

#166

> owners of drafty homes may need to take on the added cost of insulation when installing a heat pump Installing good insulation is also really important even if you're not using heat pumps! With bad insulation, you're wasting energy no matter what technology you're using.

It’s not always possible. For instance old wood double hung sash windows require a weight box to work. Those boxes can’t really be insulated. And there’s a good chance you don’t want to replace the old windows (or possibly can’t due to historic restrictions) because they are a massive part of the homes character.

Also insulating an old home (pre-WW2) could begin to introduce moisture issues in the walls that weren’t there the last 100+ years since the leakiness of the home would dry the structure. Last thing you want is for condensation and water vapor to build up in the insulation and then begin to rot the wood. Modern build have vapor barriers and airtight seals.

I guess my point is to be careful with old structures without considering things. They were built the way they were because those were the materials we had (old growth wood!) and they were designed to function a certain way.

Re: Heat pumps of the 1800s are becoming the technology of the future

#167

In a house I own in Melbourne, Australia, I just replaced an old gas central heating system with 3 new top of the line Daikin mini split heat pumps. The new units can heat the entire house for the same amount of electrical energy that was used to run the FAN in the old gas unit. They are crazy efficient. Ducts are dead. The Daikin Alira X is the gold-plated option and cost $8k AUD for 2x2.5kw and 1x7.1kw units includ…

> Ducts are dead. Ducts are still needed to circulate air, especially if you want to remove stale air (e.g., bathrooms, kitchen) and bring in (filtered) fresh air (to bedrooms).

A recirculating central heating system doesn't do that. As mentioned below you either need exhaust only ventilation, balanced ventilation or ideally ERV/HRV. All of the above are available in both ducted and ductless forms.

Re: Heat pumps of the 1800s are becoming the technology of the future

#168
post #53

In 2017 we installed a very efficient air-source heat pump and solar panels. My electrical utility offers 1:1 buyback of electricity so I am able to build up a credit in the summer and run the heat pump well into the fall and winter on that surplus. The system is sized for cooling the house which means that it is undersized for heating, but during cool fall and spring temperatures it operates satisfactorily as a heat…

Living in the PNW, I'm building a new house and I've chosen a dual fuel hybrid heat pump system as per https://www.bryantbing.com/products/hybrid-heat/ I'll also have solar + battery. Should be able to run the furnace & fan but not the heat pump (too many kW/h) during a power outage and thus heating with gas. It'll run off the heat pump for 90-95% of the year, only using gas on the coldest days, or during an outage.…

Can't heat with gas without electricity, unless you have a genset or power wall kind of thing to provide epower.

Re: Heat pumps of the 1800s are becoming the technology of the future

#169
post #105
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, because the light can escape through windows.

So can heat. That's not the appliance's fault.

It's not about fault at all - I'm just saying that the analysis does not apply to lightbulbs. For a lightbulb to be as efficient as a resistance furnace at heating a room, you would need to have zero light escape that room so that all the light would be converted to heat. Then, the heat would leave the room at the same rate as heat generated by a resistance furnace.

Even if we consider incandescent light bulbs, which waste most of the energy they use as "heat", that heat is actually being transferred primarily through radiation, so it can escape through windows more easily than the heat that a furnace transfers to your indoor air.

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