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Heat pumps of the 1800s are becoming the technology of the future

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Re: Heat pumps of the 1800s are becoming the technology of the future

#101

Post by Scoundreller »

rini17 wrote: post #73
PinguTS wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't have power outages after ice storms. Temperatures of -10°C are regularly in Scandinavia as well as in Austria, Swiss and Germany. We are living in a developed world with working infrastructure. Power outages happens only by accident like when an US helicopter tries weird landings: https://www-abendzeitung--muenchen-de.translate.goog/bayern/...

There are occassional outages. But the pylons are designed with icing in the mind and that does the difference. More outages are due to poorly trimmed trees falling on wires than ice itself. That usually affects only small area and can be fixed quickly.

Issue with the ice accretion is that when things get bad… they get very bad:

https://www.rcinet.ca/en/2017/01/05/canada-history-jan-5-199...

Re: Heat pumps of the 1800s are becoming the technology of the future

#102

Post by jakedata »

rainsford wrote: post #68
Volundr wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Define backup? I have a heat pump as my only source of cooling/heat, but it does have a single heat strip in it for the couple days a year it gets too cold for the heat pump alone. There no "second fixture" to maintain. This is common for my area.

Same for where I live. And in fact it's arguably a simpler setup since where I live you also need air conditioning in the summer, so many homes already have 90% of what they need for a heat pump setup (which is after all just an AC running in reverse). Installing some other heat source alongside the AC you already have instead of just installing a heat pump for year round needs is arguably the more complicated option…

My heat pump was a retrofit to an existing home with a fully functional gas boiler. Being a ductless split system, it did not interfere with the existing baseboard heat in any way. By retaining the boiler I was able to afford the installation of solar panels and the heat pump in the same year and probably reap 85% of the efficiency benefit for a substantially reduced up-front cost.

Re: Heat pumps of the 1800s are becoming the technology of the future

#103

Post by leoedin »

macinjosh wrote: post #30
jakedata wrote: post #19

In 2017 we installed a very efficient air-source heat pump and solar panels. My electrical utility offers 1:1 buyback of electricity so I am able to build up a credit in the summer and run the heat pump well into the fall and winter on that surplus. The system is sized for cooling the house which means that it is undersized for heating, but during cool fall and spring temperatures it operates satisfactorily as a heat…

Still waiting for one of these people who rave about their heat pump system to actually rely on it full time without a backup. Most folks could barely afford to replace an existing furnace in a place that has all the fixtures installed, much less pay to install a second one based on different setup, and then pay for maintaining two systems on top of everything else. It is absurd to think that this is a plausible way…

Loads of countries have effective power grids which go down incredibly rarely. I can't even remember the last power cut I had - maybe a few years ago? It's certainly rare enough that I don't need my main source of cooking and heat to take it into account.

My parents live in rural Scotland and use a ground source heat pump for heat and an induction stove for cooking. Power outages happen more often - but still pretty rarely. If they do, they burn wood for heat and eat cold food for a few hours.

Re: Heat pumps of the 1800s are becoming the technology of the future

#104

Post by Scoundreller »

rr808 wrote: post #25
BooneJS wrote: post #3

When will air source heat pumps be ready for service in cold weather climates without gas backup?

I feel a combination with a wood burning stove is best. Especially with the potential for power cuts.

Wood pellet stoves are very efficient and semi-automated. Pellets can be cheaper than split logs (if you have to buy them).

Re: Heat pumps of the 1800s are becoming the technology of the future

#106

Post by sschueller »

PinguTS wrote: post #49

Sorry, but I don't see any novelty here. Everything described in the article is commercially available. At least here in Germany. Heat pumps are used to heat a storage container called buffer, a water container of 200l or more of water. This is used to run the heat pump when energy is cheap to warm up the buffer. That is for example in daytime when energy is available from the photovoltaic. If you don't have photovol…

This is like when Apple introduces some new feature that existed on Android for years and claims it as some sort of revolutionary thing. In this case it's just that the mainstream US has discovered heat pumps when they have been mainstream in Europe for many years.

Re: Heat pumps of the 1800s are becoming the technology of the future

#107

Post by ClumsyPilot »

elil17 wrote: post #79
ghettoCoder wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always joke that in winter all appliances are 100% efficient (I know they're not). Some look at me funny but the ones who pay the gas bill get usually get it.

If you have a resistance electric furnace, that is essentially true. With gas, you add the electric generation and distribution losses, which is a pretty big difference. It does cost more to run an appliance than to heat with gas.

Gas boilers produce NO2, and other nasties - they do affect air quality in your house

Re: Heat pumps of the 1800s are becoming the technology of the future

#108

Post by coffeebeqn »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #15
nickpeterson wrote: post #4

Why can’t my whole home participate in this technology? It would seem an ok fit for things like freezers, refrigerators, hot water heaters, etc. When it’s freezing cold outside, it seems crazy that I warm the air of my house and then use electricity to keep the fridge cooler than the air I just heated. Someone needs to make a standard for moving heat/cool through all appliances in a house…

The good news is that the process of running your fridge moves the heat from the fridge into your home, which in the winter is not such a big problem. Your fridge is just another heat pump. It's a bigger problem in the summer when you are maybe trying to cool your house using air-conditioning and your fridge adds heat to your house to keep the fridge cool. Much less desirable.

Simple- just keep the fridge doors open during the summer

Re: Heat pumps of the 1800s are becoming the technology of the future

#109

Post by fifteenforty »

In a house I own in Melbourne, Australia, I just replaced an old gas central heating system with 3 new top of the line Daikin mini split heat pumps. The new units can heat the entire house for the same amount of electrical energy that was used to run the FAN in the old gas unit. They are crazy efficient.

Ducts are dead.

The Daikin Alira X is the gold-plated option and cost $8k AUD for 2x2.5kw and 1x7.1kw units including installation. Payback time is about 3 years. The system is oversized, but enables excellent zoning and of course provides cooling which is a must on 40C/104F days.

Why do they seem to be so much more expensive in the US?

Re: Heat pumps of the 1800s are becoming the technology of the future

#110

Post by teruakohatu »

fifteenforty wrote: post #109

In a house I own in Melbourne, Australia, I just replaced an old gas central heating system with 3 new top of the line Daikin mini split heat pumps. The new units can heat the entire house for the same amount of electrical energy that was used to run the FAN in the old gas unit. They are crazy efficient. Ducts are dead. The Daikin Alira X is the gold-plated option and cost $8k AUD for 2x2.5kw and 1x7.1kw units includ…

> Ducts are dead.

Ducted heatpumps are a thing here in NZ and make sense to me, not that I have used one. The heatpump sits in the roof and air is pushed into three or so rooms through ducts.

If building a new house I think ducts would be the way to go.

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