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Wyoming senators want to phase out sales of EVs

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Re: Wyoming senators want to phase out sales of EVs

#41

Post by remote_phone »

JohnBooty wrote: post #23

Misleading headline. "A group of state legislators propose a law" != "State ABC wants to XYZ" This is a law proposed by a small group of state legislators. Of course, all laws start as bills like this. But most bills never become law. A more responsible and less sensationalistic story would talk about the level of support for such a bill, its chances of becoming actual law, its constitutionality, and so on. This is n…

Can we penalize sites that provide misleading headlines? I’m so sick of sites twisting the facts like this, if we could build a list of sites that don’t manipulate the facts and just present things straight I would love it.

Re: Wyoming senators want to phase out sales of EVs

#42

Post by __derek__ »

jmclnx wrote: post #3

I am sure that will work, a state with a population less than a tiny neighborhood in New York City thinking this will make an impact, good luck with that :) Also I do not know how they can stop the creation of charging stations. IIRC, Biden wants to pepper Interstate highways with charging stations. So at the very least, there will still be stations in WY no matter what that bill says.

Interstate highways are owned/operated/maintained by the states. The federal government can (attempt to) influence what happens along them, but it's not going to build anything itself.

Re: Wyoming senators want to phase out sales of EVs

#43

Post by b5n »

rsj_hn wrote: post #26
toomuchtodo wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scroll down to the part of my below citation where each jurisdiction is identified with new combustion vehicle sales bans. This forces auto supply chains to reconfigure or die. Some jurisdictions might walk their bans back, but you only require a critical mass of the total addressable market to stick to it for it to remain effective. “As California goes, so goes the nation.” and all the jazz. https://en.wikipedia.org…

Scroll down to the part where something was actually enacted as opposed to being promised to be enacted long after the legislators leave office. These "plans", "pledges" are about as reliable as carbon net zero promises. It is purely performative. You may not have noticed, but carbon emissions keep going up. As does coal use [ https://www.iea.org/news/the-world-s-coal-consumption-is-set... ]. But lets have another pl…

There are plenty of valid criticisms of CA, but you're clearly suffering from an advanced case of Murdoch brain worms. Please show us on the doll where CA touched you ;)

Re: Wyoming senators want to phase out sales of EVs

#44

Post by thefaux »

zaroth wrote: post #21

It’s exactly as absurd as the alternative legislation to “phase out” (what a bizarre turn of phrase) ICE vehicles. And I say this as an EV owner. The concept of banning one tech or another in this way is backwards thinking and stems from ignorance of the power and beauty of market economics. People (in the aggregate) will buy the products that work best for them at the price they can afford. Now it’s true those produ…

> The concept of banning one tech or another in this way is backwards thinking and stems from ignorance of the power and beauty of market economics.

This is a one-sided view of markets. One can both recognize the power of the market which can be a force for both great good and extreme evil. You may be right that banning extant technology is not the best approach to dealing with the failings of government and the market (which cannot ever be cleanly separated) but that doesn't mean that it is backward thinking to consider that perhaps we might be better off if we eliminated or transitioned to a different technology.

Re: Wyoming senators want to phase out sales of EVs

#45

Post by rsj_hn »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #27
rsj_hn wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scroll down to the part where something was actually enacted as opposed to being promised to be enacted long after the legislators leave office. These "plans", "pledges" are about as reliable as carbon net zero promises. It is purely performative. You may not have noticed, but carbon emissions keep going up. As does coal use [ https://www.iea.org/news/the-world-s-coal-consumption-is-set... ]. But lets have another pl…

California is the world’s fourth largest economy and has 12% of the US population (39 million compared to the 600k folks living in Wyoming). It’ll continue to be an economic powerhouse long after people complaining online about the state are gone. If complaining makes you feel better, do so, but it doesn’t change the facts. It’s certainly not going to hurt California [1]. Edit: I have never lived in California. [1] h…

Nothing hurts some Californians' feelings than the simple fact that the rest of the nation no longer looks to them for guidance.

Yes, California is still big. But it's no longer a leader. The idea "but California did this" is no longer an argument in favor of something. It's often an argument against doing something.

I am sorry if this triggers you, but it's reality.

Re: Wyoming senators want to phase out sales of EVs

#46

Post by jefftk »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #18
rsj_hn wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I very much doubt this will happen. Toyota announced it will continue to produce ICE cars, and other major manufacturers will walk back their vague "goals" once the utopian goals are revealed to be impractical. Or perhaps the goals will just keep getting pushed forward and there will be lip service paid to them during the annual Davos conferences. Several US automakers may not make it, though. They are long past thei…

Scroll down to the part of my below citation where each jurisdiction is identified with new combustion vehicle sales bans. This forces auto supply chains to reconfigure or die. Some jurisdictions might walk their bans back, but you only require a critical mass of the total addressable market to stick to it for it to remain effective. “As California goes, so goes the nation.” and all the jazz. https://en.wikipedia.org…

> you only require a critical mass of the total addressable market to stick to it for it to remain effective.

I think that's backwards. Instead, for it's still to be practical to buy new ICE cars in states where they are legal you just need those states to cover enough population that it's worth it for some manufacturer to keep producing the cars. I would expect that to happen even if we were only talking about 5% of the population living in those states if those states continue to have strong demand for ICE vehicles (and so the remaining manufacturer could sell a lot of whatever they kept producing).

Re: Wyoming senators want to phase out sales of EVs

#47

Post by tifik »

CincinnatiMan wrote: post #31
smt88 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Who is "they" in your comment?

It's an answer to the parent, which specifically says...

> those who idolize free markets, say the government should not "pick winners", and rail against the nanny state.

...but then act in the opposite way to the beliefs they say they hold.

The comment you are replying to adds that the group of people that behave like this likely has an overlap with people that...

> use the Bible as a weapon without embodying the values of Jesus.

So to me that would be a group of people I'd readily label as hypocrites, self-dealing populists or straight up liars.

Re: Wyoming senators want to phase out sales of EVs

#48

Post by sokoloff »

phpisthebest wrote: post #34
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Used cars are already ticking time bombs because of the engine, transmissions, etc…being able to measure battery wear definitively without hiring an mechanic to closely go over it actually makes an EV a much safer used car buy than an ICE.

>>being able to measure battery wear definitively That is the problem right there, I do not believe they can do that that definitively, and there are more than a few horror stories already where a person buys a Used EV, the battery tested fine on purchase, but then just a few months later a cell goes out... and since you can not just replace a single cell well now they have a $20,000 bill often more than the car is w…

I agree that a definitive measure of battery health is not available (in two senses: the ones available are not conclusive and they are easily tampered with).

I disagree that the batteries are not serviceable. My car has had a module replacement which served to restore battery and vehicle capacity after a single module (mostly) failed. That was done at a dealer under warranty, but there are many aftermarket suppliers capable of doing the same (and I’d have DIY’d it in my driveway if it wasn’t covered under warranty).

Re: Wyoming senators want to phase out sales of EVs

#49

Post by sokoloff »

__derek__ wrote: post #42
jmclnx wrote: post #3

I am sure that will work, a state with a population less than a tiny neighborhood in New York City thinking this will make an impact, good luck with that :) Also I do not know how they can stop the creation of charging stations. IIRC, Biden wants to pepper Interstate highways with charging stations. So at the very least, there will still be stations in WY no matter what that bill says.

Interstate highways are owned/operated/maintained by the states. The federal government can (attempt to) influence what happens along them, but it's not going to build anything itself.

The reason we had a standardized 55 mph speed limit and 21 as the drinking age was via federal interstate highway funding being made contingent on those things.

Re: Wyoming senators want to phase out sales of EVs

#50

Post by mynameisvlad »

rsj_hn wrote: post #45
toomuchtodo wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

California is the world’s fourth largest economy and has 12% of the US population (39 million compared to the 600k folks living in Wyoming). It’ll continue to be an economic powerhouse long after people complaining online about the state are gone. If complaining makes you feel better, do so, but it doesn’t change the facts. It’s certainly not going to hurt California [1]. Edit: I have never lived in California. [1] h…

Nothing hurts some Californians' feelings than the simple fact that the rest of the nation no longer looks to them for guidance. Yes, California is still big. But it's no longer a leader. The idea "but California did this" is no longer an argument in favor of something. It's often an argument against doing something. I am sorry if this triggers you, but it's reality.

Source? Says who? Your opinion is clearly evident, but it’s just that, your opinion.
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