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We’ve filed a law­suit chal­leng­ing Sta­ble Dif­fu­sion

stablediffusionlitigation.com

231–240 of 473 posts

Re: We’ve filed a law­suit chal­leng­ing Sta­ble Dif­fu­sion

#231
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter if they exist as exact copies in my opinion. The law doesn't recognize a mathematical computer transformation as creating a new work with original copyright. If you give me an image, and I encrypt it with a randomly generated password, and then don't write down the password anywhere, the resulting file will be indistinguishable from random noise. No one can possibly derive the original image from it…

This surely can't be the case, right? If it was, then what's stopping me from taking any possible byte sequence and applying my copyright to it? I could always show that there exists some function f that produces said byte sequence when applied to my copyrighted material. Can I sue Microsoft because the entire Windows 11 codebase is just one "rote mathematical transformation" away from the essay I wrote in elementary…

The law doesn't care about technical tricks. It cares about how you got the bytes and what humans think of them.

Sure, the windows 11 codebase is in pi somewhere if you go far enough. Sure, pi is a non-copyrightable fact of nature. That doesn't mean the windows codebase is _actually_ in pi legally, just that it technically is.

The law does not care about weird gotchas like you describe.

I recommended reading this to a sibling comment, and I'll recommend it to you too: https://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/entry/23

Yes, copyright law has obviously irrational results if you start trying to look at it only from a technical "but information is just 1s and 0s, you can't copyright 1s and 0s" perspective. The law does not care.

Which is why we have to think about the high level legal process that stable diffusion does, not so much the actual small technical details like "can you recover images from the neural net" or such.

Re: We’ve filed a law­suit chal­leng­ing Sta­ble Dif­fu­sion

#232

An artist can look at images for reference, and draw something new inspired by them. Why does it matter if a software tool can do this much faster? If the artist makes the image very similar to one of the reference photos, it may be a copyright violation. It doesn't matter if the artist used a pencil or software to create the new work. Current AI image generation does, however, make it easy to unknowingly violate cop…

Well, there was a copyright case in Europe recently where an artist had taken a photograph, flipped it horizontally, and painted it.

It was deemed an original work by the court.

I can’t see how, with such a precedent, they could rule that SD doesn’t produce original works.

https://www.rangefinderonline.com/news-features/industry-new...

Re: We’ve filed a law­suit chal­leng­ing Sta­ble Dif­fu­sion

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Humans decided to include artwork that they did not have any right to use as part of a training data set. This is about holding humans accountable for their actions.

"right" in the informal sense or in some legal sense?

Legal

Re: We’ve filed a law­suit chal­leng­ing Sta­ble Dif­fu­sion

#234
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this touches on the core mismatch between the legal perspective and technical perspective. Yes, on a technical level, those chunks are random data. On the legal side, however, those chunks are illegal copyright infringement because that is their intent, and there is a process that allows the intent to happen. I can't really say it better than this post does, so I highly recommend reading it: https://ansuz.soo…

Except you've a heckin' problem with Stable Diffusion because you have to argue that the intent is to steal the copyright by copying already existing artworks. But that's not what people use Stable Diffusion for: people use Stable Diffusion to create new works which don't previously exist as that combination of colors/bytes/etc. Artists don't have copyright on their artistic style, process, technique or subject matte…

> because you have to argue that the intent is to steal the copyright by copying already existing artworks

Copyright infringement can happen without intending to infringe copyright.

Various music copyright cases start with "Artist X sampled some music from artist Y, thinking it was transformative and fair use". The court, in some of these cases, have found something the artist _intended_ to be transformative to in fact be copyright infringement.

> You can't copyright artistic style, only actual output

You copyright outputs, and then works that are derived from those outputs are potentially copyrighted. Stable Diffusion's outputs are clearly defined from the training set, basically by definition of what neural networks are.

It's less clear they're definitely copyright-infringing derivative works, but it's far less clearcut than how you're phrasing it.

Re: We’ve filed a law­suit chal­leng­ing Sta­ble Dif­fu­sion

#235
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How? If you want to distribute a commercial non-research model, simply train it on data sets where people have given consent. I doubt that research would be affected. At most, I’d expect copyright legislation around training to slightly delay commercial mass-deployment. Given the huge socio-technical transition that is ahead of us, it’s probably a good thing to let people have a chance to form an opinion before openi…

> before opening the floodgates How can you uninvent and undistribute a technology?

I never suggested that. By floodgates, I mean widespread commercial application. If entirely new economic sectors are created, it’s incredibly hard, socially, to retroactively apply boundaries, should they be desirable. Initial conditions are incredibly impactful.

Re: We’ve filed a law­suit chal­leng­ing Sta­ble Dif­fu­sion

#236
At the point that a program that could instantly copy the style of your favorite artist within half an hour was invented, a lawsuit being filed against its creators was inevitable. And I'm not sure what humanity can do to just not invent Stable Diffusion. The math is impeccable, and the results speak for themselves, and it's convinced a lot of people. It's angered many others for understandable reasons, and has the potential to cause harm. Financially yes, but also (and I think more importantly) in a spiritual sense - setting the standards of millions of people that art can be created better and faster by a non-human entity, and that humans are meant to be preempted at their passions if something more cost-efficient comes along.

So how could this situation have been reasonably avoided? Was it meant to be avoided? Even supposing this lawsuit succeeds and Stability AI is dissolved, it's not going to change the fact that people are going to keep using Stable Diffusion anyway, even if people stop themselves from talking about it in the open.

Another thing I've been mulling about is the negative effects of new technologies could be amplified if those technologies can be completely controlled by an independent person. As an example, 3D-printed gun are considered less dangerous than traditionally manufactured guns, but there was the incident where Shinzo Abe was assassinated using a homemade gun in spite of the extremely strict gun control measures in Japan. I think the conversation about that kind of danger would be intensely revisited if just anyone has the ability to manufacture a more efficient weapon using only things they can buy themselves.

Giving away the 8 gigabytes of Stable Diffusion for free with the means to run it on anyone's computer means that the harms that many people perceive about AI-generated art are going to exist forever. There is no solution to the problem now, only ideological differences to be repeated forever. To those that are against it, art style appropriation is now a mathematically defined fact, published as replicable research.

If the progress in generative art today breaks the spirits of artists, the small hope for me is that at least it was a technology that's unlikely to cause mass deaths or destruction. I have to wonder if humanity will be ready when that time does come for a different breakthrough. AI art at this stage can already cause mass die-offs of motivation and attention spans.

Re: We’ve filed a law­suit chal­leng­ing Sta­ble Dif­fu­sion

#237
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference here is that the images aren't stored, but rather an extremely abstract description of the image was used to very slightly adjust a network of millions of nodes in a tiny direction. No semblance of the original image even remotely exists in the model.

This is very much a 'color of your bits' topic, but I'm not sure why the internal representation matters. It's pretty trivial to recreate famous works like the Mona Lisa or Starry Night or Monet's Water Lily Pond. Obviously some representation of the originals exist inside the model+prompt. Why wouldn't that apply to other images in the training sets?

Longer term, by analogy, it will then of course turn into a "what color is your neural net" topic.

Which runs into some very interesting historical precedents.

((I wonder if there's a split between people who think AI emancipation might happen this century versus people who think that such a thing is silly to contemplate))

Re: We’ve filed a law­suit chal­leng­ing Sta­ble Dif­fu­sion

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It cheapens the artform. Everyone make their own artistic judgements, nobody's ideas are better. If people prefer this https://lexica.art/ (scroll down) then that's their right.

Tell me how those are 'ideas?' I imagine there are plenty of people that prefer Autotune voices for some reason too. Doesn't mean everyone needs to agree that it's good in itself or for artists.

Whether we like it or not, technology will always make it worse for some people.

And it's not a new phenomenon. The printing press made scribes nearly obsolete, cars led to a mass slaughter of horses (and all related professions), and so on wherever you look. Invention of photography nearly killed whole genres of art (and gave rise to impressionism, abstractionism etc.)

Unfortunately, we can only judge the outcome of these changes only decades (or even centuries) after they happen.

Re: We’ve filed a law­suit chal­leng­ing Sta­ble Dif­fu­sion

#239
It feels like "used to train NN" is not well covered by copyright. It assumes people will either just look at a piece of art, or copy it verbatim (or near enough).

Do artists mind a human browsing their work, or buying it? Not at all. Probably even learning from it is fine.

But "thanks for your hard work, my AI has it from here" seems justifiably objectionable for an artist, who would reasonably expect to charge money for this.

I feel for the creators. I'm glad AI is making progress. Not sure how the lawsuit will go.

Re: We’ve filed a law­suit chal­leng­ing Sta­ble Dif­fu­sion

#240
post #4

I'm on the fence about this. On the one hand, using works without consent or attribution is bad. On the other hand... This is exactly how humans train to become artists: by studying and remixing the art of others.

It is indeed a more complex scenario than it first appears. I think the lawsuits have a case if they can prove copyrighted images were taken and used directly in the commercial product. The moral arguments about AI and it's use and abuse are broad and difficult, because they rely on the intent of the end user rather than the developer of the tool to prove an argument has merit. I personally don't like AI art, but I c…

> I think the lawsuits have a case if they can prove copyrighted images were taken and used directly in the commercial product.

This is what I think would be the easiest thing to prove.

Other people's work was used to create a product that is sold for a quite a bit of profit. No attribution, no compensation. To me it sounds like a pretty clear copyright violation, even if you don't consider what the product does.

DeviantArt probably violated their own TOS.

It'll be interesting to see how the courts view this.

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