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We’ve filed a law­suit chal­leng­ing Sta­ble Dif­fu­sion

stablediffusionlitigation.com

21–30 of 473 posts

Re: We’ve filed a law­suit chal­leng­ing Sta­ble Dif­fu­sion

#21
post #2

“Sta­ble Dif­fu­sion con­tains unau­tho­rized copies of mil­lions—and pos­si­bly bil­lions—of copy­righted images.” That’s going to be hard to argue. Where are the copies? “Hav­ing copied the five bil­lion images—with­out the con­sent of the orig­i­nal artists—Sta­ble Dif­fu­sion relies on a math­e­mat­i­cal process called dif­fu­sion to store com­pressed copies of these train­ing images, which in turn are recom­bine…

It doesn't matter if they exist as exact copies in my opinion.

The law doesn't recognize a mathematical computer transformation as creating a new work with original copyright.

If you give me an image, and I encrypt it with a randomly generated password, and then don't write down the password anywhere, the resulting file will be indistinguishable from random noise. No one can possibly derive the original image from it. But, it's still copyrighted by the original artist as long as they can show "This started as my image, and a machine made a rote mathematical transformation to it" because machine's making rote mathematical transformations cannot create new copyright.

The argument for stable diffusion would be that even if you cannot point to any image, since only algorithmic changes happened to the inputs, without any human creativity, the output is a derived work which does not have its own unique copyright.

Re: We’ve filed a law­suit chal­leng­ing Sta­ble Dif­fu­sion

#22
“It is a par­a­site that, if allowed to pro­lif­er­ate, will make artists extinct.”

This is the fundamentally flawed and misguided argument that can literally be applied to any technological progress to curtail advancement.

Imagine if the medical tricorder (a device from Star Trek that does maybe 99% of what modern doctors do) is suddenly invented today. Doctors could use this argument to defend their livelihoods, but they lose sight of the fact that doctors don’t exist because society needs to employ them. They exist because we have a problem of people getting sick… if more sick people can be helped then great! That is an advancement for society because more lives are saved (as opposed to more doctors being employed), and then simply the standard for what doctors are expected to do is raised to a higher level, since someone is still expected to operate tricorders.

Similarly, artists exist for their output for society. If these AI models can truly fulfill the needs of society that artists currently output (that is debatable), then that simply raises the bar for what artists are expected to output. But it doesn’t change the fact that we only care about the output for society (which can never be truly harmed by advancements such as this because if someone can not outperform the AI then they are redundant), not the fact that artists exist.

Put another way, many current artists who fear this are simply doing the generative work of AI already… manually. The AI is democratizing art so that the lowest hanging fruit of art is now accessible to more people. The bar for art has now been raised so that the expected quality of newer work is to be much higher. Just like how after computer aided design was invented the quality of movie effects, digital game art, etc, all jumped. Progress means those doing current “levels” of art will need to add this tool to their repertoire to build more impressive things. Rent seeking and staying in place (from an artistic advancement point of view) is not the answer.

As someone else put it in a comment here, looking at other works of art and learning how to make art and creating new art from this influence is literally how humans have been doing it for eons. Everyone is standing on the shoulders of giants. This AI merely makes it explicit so I guess it brings out the rent seeking feeling since people must feel it’s now possible to quantify the amount their own work contributed to something. I guess if you don’t want anyone to be influenced by it—AI included—the traditional way is to not show it to anyone.

Re: We’ve filed a law­suit chal­leng­ing Sta­ble Dif­fu­sion

#23
post #4

I'm on the fence about this. On the one hand, using works without consent or attribution is bad. On the other hand... This is exactly how humans train to become artists: by studying and remixing the art of others.

It is indeed a more complex scenario than it first appears.

I think the lawsuits have a case if they can prove copyrighted images were taken and used directly in the commercial product.

The moral arguments about AI and it's use and abuse are broad and difficult, because they rely on the intent of the end user rather than the developer of the tool to prove an argument has merit.

I personally don't like AI art, but I can't declare that it's the devil's tool and should be purged with fire. I only think it overall will be a net negative, like I feel with AutoTune. It cheapens the artform.

Re: We’ve filed a law­suit chal­leng­ing Sta­ble Dif­fu­sion

#24

Sometimes I have to wonder about the hypocrisy you can see on HN threads. When its software development, many here seem to understand the merits of a similar lawsuit against Copilot[1], but as soon as its a different group such as artists, then it's "no, that's not how a NN works" or "the NN model works just the same way as a human would understand art and style." [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34274326

Indeed

Instead of improving the world, creating better tools they want to sue eachother. I thought those times were over

Or maybe it is just bias against Microsoft

Re: We’ve filed a law­suit chal­leng­ing Sta­ble Dif­fu­sion

#25
21st century collage tool? While advocating for the illegalization of collages seems a bit of a stretch, I’m curious how true this is. The LAION B dataset is something like 100 TB and stable diffusion is about 10 GB so there is a factor of 10000 compression. That means a single pixel represents a 100x100 region. Perhaps someone more familiar with the topic could weigh in, but it would seem that the model would need to be representing content from more than just a single image at a to achieve that level of compression.

If so the correct analogy is not a collage but a musical scale and yes Beethoven took musical notes that Bach had used but it was not exactly a copy.

Re: We’ve filed a law­suit chal­leng­ing Sta­ble Dif­fu­sion

#26
post #20
post #2

“Sta­ble Dif­fu­sion con­tains unau­tho­rized copies of mil­lions—and pos­si­bly bil­lions—of copy­righted images.” That’s going to be hard to argue. Where are the copies? “Hav­ing copied the five bil­lion images—with­out the con­sent of the orig­i­nal artists—Sta­ble Dif­fu­sion relies on a math­e­mat­i­cal process called dif­fu­sion to store com­pressed copies of these train­ing images, which in turn are recom­bine…

I don't think you have to reproduce an entire original work to demonstrate copyright violation. Think about sampling in hip hop for example. A 2 second sample, distorted, re-pitched, etc. can be grounds for a copyright violation.

The difference here is that the images aren't stored, but rather an extremely abstract description of the image was used to very slightly adjust a network of millions of nodes in a tiny direction. No semblance of the original image even remotely exists in the model.

Re: We’ve filed a law­suit chal­leng­ing Sta­ble Dif­fu­sion

#27
Why do we keep posting the same arguments over and over with these stories.

It's like how humans learn. It contains chunks of copywriter material. What about copilot. Hackers don't respect artists. Yadda yadda. It's boring.

I don't know the answer, but after reading the same things over and over I don't know if I trust myself to even have a valid opinion about it.

Re: We’ve filed a law­suit chal­leng­ing Sta­ble Dif­fu­sion

#28
post #2

“Sta­ble Dif­fu­sion con­tains unau­tho­rized copies of mil­lions—and pos­si­bly bil­lions—of copy­righted images.” That’s going to be hard to argue. Where are the copies? “Hav­ing copied the five bil­lion images—with­out the con­sent of the orig­i­nal artists—Sta­ble Dif­fu­sion relies on a math­e­mat­i­cal process called dif­fu­sion to store com­pressed copies of these train­ing images, which in turn are recom­bine…

> That’s going to be hard to argue. Where are the copies?

In fairness, Diffusion is arguably a very complex entropy coding similar to Arithmetic/Huffman coding.

Given that copyright is protectable even on compressed/encrypted files, it seems fair that the “container of compressed bytes” (in this case the Diffusion model) does “contain” the original images no differently than a compressed folder of images contains the original images.

A lawyer/researcher would likely win this case if they re-create 90%ish of a single input image from the diffusion model with text input.

Re: We’ve filed a law­suit chal­leng­ing Sta­ble Dif­fu­sion

#29

You are literally modern day luddites. If you succeed, you will undo decades of technological progress.

How? If you want to distribute a commercial non-research model, simply train it on data sets where people have given consent. I doubt that research would be affected.

At most, I’d expect copyright legislation around training to slightly delay commercial mass-deployment. Given the huge socio-technical transition that is ahead of us, it’s probably a good thing to let people have a chance to form an opinion before opening the floodgates. Judging by our transition into ad-tech social media, I’m not exactly confident that we’ll end up in a good place, even if the tech itself has a lot of potential.

Re: We’ve filed a law­suit chal­leng­ing Sta­ble Dif­fu­sion

#30

Sometimes I have to wonder about the hypocrisy you can see on HN threads. When its software development, many here seem to understand the merits of a similar lawsuit against Copilot[1], but as soon as its a different group such as artists, then it's "no, that's not how a NN works" or "the NN model works just the same way as a human would understand art and style." [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34274326

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