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Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

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Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#451

Post by carom »

jpatt wrote: post #167
mangosteenjuice wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just capitalism. Bloated management and wasteful processes are problems under feudalism and communism too.

If anything, the modern management structure more closely resembles a mini-communist state than a capitalist system. Each department's revenue goes into a shared pool, which is distributed amongst the company in annual planning cycles by an unelected board of representatives. Who gets what is as much a function of meritocratic principles like department revenue as it is of who happens to have senior leadership's ear…

I have been saying this. Large corporations are command economies! There is a ton of bureaucracy too.

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#452

Post by Bilal_io »

complex_exp wrote: post #388
tsunamifury wrote: post #321

Every few months or so we get these really circle jerky posts by engineers who believe the world of business is them just pumping out code and somehow getting paid. 1) that’s the difference between a job and a hobby. You do the hard parts you’re paid to do sometimes. 2) decisions you don’t like by stakeholders you don’t like aren’t always wrong just because you see some way to “code it”. A product is not just its cod…

That very well may be true, but what's wrong with trying to cheat the system and do only the fun part? Clearly some people manage to do just that. I generally don't care about making the business fly, I care about what I care about. A better discussion would be about what can you reasonably expect, for example you'll probably never lead a project which puts a limit on your salary. It may still be a good decision.

> I generally don't care about making the business fly, I care about what I care about.

That's not ethical at all.

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#453

Post by fijiaarone »

tjrDL6MjB2Zwwa wrote: post #309
kraig911 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1000x times this. It's a weird thing our profession. There's a horrible but apt (misogynistic even) saying. Happily married men are happy husbands - Unhappily married men are great philosophers. I really feel agile has killed the happiness of our industry because it's met with a lot of back and forth, meetings, rituals, and meta-work and not actual productivity (If agile is done well though it can be amazing but that…

> Happily married men are happy husbands - Unhappily married men are great philosophers. I'm not sure I understand what this means, can someone clarify for me?

You’ll have to get married and grow old to understand.

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#454

Post by fijiaarone »

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #22
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #6

> I have come to a realization that I don't really enjoy Software Engineering(& the processes that it comes with) but I do love programming & solving problems. I can almost guarantee that you’re just at the wrong company. Some software companies can turn even the simplest tasks into a grueling series of processes, endless meetings, and joint work across a big number of “stakeholders”. These companies will take the jo…

> I can almost guarantee that you’re just at the wrong company. Even if this is true (which it most likely is), there's no guarantee the company you move to (in your quest of finding "the right company") won't either a) also be the wrong company again right off the bat or b) become the wrong company again. I've kind of just given up. I've accepted I'm basically a "technical plumber". Take data from this system/vendor…

I’ve worked at every company.

The grass is always brown — when there is any — and the septic tank stinks.

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#455

Post by LAC-Tech »

fijiaarone wrote: post #440
LAC-Tech wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read the original manifesto and principles, and quite frankly I'm not that impressed with them either. Some of the principles are actively harmful, like welcoming changing requirements late in the process.

Better to death march irrelevant requirements to bankruptcy than adapt to reality?

Theres a third option - see if you can think of it!

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#456

Post by carom »

slt2021 wrote: post #175
nerdile wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More context at https://news.ycombinator.com/context?id=29969359

pls name a company, I want a job at that company

Google in Sunnyvale was like this. We had lunch together but the office was eerily quiet. People would catch themselves talking, apologize, then go to a meeting room if they wanted to continue. Low key hated it and I'm not a social person and prefer quiet while working.

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#457

Post by carl_sandland »

I empathize and completely agree; I like the distinction made between programming and 'software engineering'; the latter is all pure fantasy driven by the profit motive. I think we've been too nice to capitalists and need to reclaim our hobby from the evil. I'd so like to work in a well organized coop of some sort, on interesting challenges, damn the profit motive.

And agile can go burn in hell, however 'correct' you are doing it.

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#458

Post by gonzo41 »

selestify wrote: post #368
mindcrime wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't upvote this enough times. Time and time again you see this: people say "I hate agile because of X, Y and Z" where X, Y, and Z - at best - are orthogonal to the idea of Agile, and at worst (and perhaps even "ordinarily") are complete anathema to the spirit of Agile. Sorry, but anybody who thinks Agile is about velocity, story points, planning poker, standups, retrospectives, backlog grooming, etc. has been sold…

What is actually Agile then, and how does one actually practice it?

You speak with a client. They say what they want. You build it they test it, and state objections and or request more features. You discuss and then build the agreed thing. And then you do this loop untill you ship

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#459

Post by elil17 »

doetoe wrote: post #385
elil17 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>most people stuck in unhappy marriages are men That is wildly untrue. The research on whether men or women are more satisfied in their marriages shows that they have about the same levels of satisfaction. For example: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jomf.12077 Not really sure why the demographics of philosophers effects the impact of the statement. Most philosophers are white, would it have been more imp…

Just a side remark, but "most philosophers are white" should probably be "most philosophers you heard about"

You’re absolutely right

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#460

Post by elil17 »

Retric wrote: post #403
doetoe wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a side remark, but "most philosophers are white" should probably be "most philosophers you heard about"

It’s true that only a minority of philosophers are white, and people are far less likely to be aware of philosophers outside their culture. But there are less aggressive ways to say it.

I felt that they offered a helpful correction
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