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Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

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Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#401

Post by thegrimmest »

ajmurmann wrote: post #378
xwdv wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s bland, safe, and lifeless. The statement has no bite. The original statement will be read by men and some men will connect to it right away, because rather than envision some abstract person, they are made to immediately picture a man, and in that image they may recognize themselves, like looking at a mirror.

> The original statement will be read by men and some men will connect to it right away, because rather than envision some abstract person, they are made to immediately picture a man, and in that image they may recognize themselves, like looking at a mirror. Sorry, are you saying that the audience of the statement is on purpose only men? If so, how could you possibly support any claim that it's not misogynistic?

It's quite possible to target a statement at a male audience without a disclaimer and yet still not be guilty of misogyny.

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#402

Post by fnordpiglet »

Back in the day agile was meant to let you program more. Then the process people came in and made it a tedious monstrosity. Then the management came in and made it unbearably oppressive.

We need a reboot and a flight back to utility. But it was so hard to pull off in the 90’s, I’m worried we never will recapture software development from the people who hate to program.

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#403

Post by Retric »

doetoe wrote: post #385
elil17 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>most people stuck in unhappy marriages are men That is wildly untrue. The research on whether men or women are more satisfied in their marriages shows that they have about the same levels of satisfaction. For example: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jomf.12077 Not really sure why the demographics of philosophers effects the impact of the statement. Most philosophers are white, would it have been more imp…

Just a side remark, but "most philosophers are white" should probably be "most philosophers you heard about"

It’s true that only a minority of philosophers are white, and people are far less likely to be aware of philosophers outside their culture.

But there are less aggressive ways to say it.

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#404

Post by dudus »

mulmen wrote: post #363
davidw wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the real "unicorns" are * Small/medium size companies where you recognize most everyone even if you don't work with them. There are enough people so you don't have to do things you're not qualified for like in the very early days of a startup. * Steady growth, but not crazy, venture fueled moonshots. * Selling something that earns enough money to grow the business in a fairly organic way. I worked in a place…

I worked in a place like that and it was awesome. Unfortunately we were so good at what we did across the board that we got bought by another company to integrate into their larger offering. It made a lot of sense from a business perspective but the tech team in our office was made redundant and so my time there came to an end. I think this is the inevitable conclusion to good, small companies. Since it actually work…

The Peter Principle also applies to teams and companies.

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#405

Post by antonfire »

xwdv wrote: post #128
schrodinger wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a slight implication because it only covers men that women are the source of unhappiness (e.g. the nagging wife trope), but I agree it's trivial and likely unintentional. Agree with sibling, just as applicable as "happy married people are happy partners, unhappily married people are great philosophers".

[flagged]

Leaning into society's stereotypes is one way to bend to people's implicit demands to change your writing (and quite possibly thinking).

But sure, if the metric you're optimizing is raw views and smiles and laughs, then probably the way to go is leaning into stereotypes. There's a reason those views and smiles and laughs are called "cheap".

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#406

Post by mindcrime »

selestify wrote: post #368
mindcrime wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't upvote this enough times. Time and time again you see this: people say "I hate agile because of X, Y and Z" where X, Y, and Z - at best - are orthogonal to the idea of Agile, and at worst (and perhaps even "ordinarily") are complete anathema to the spirit of Agile. Sorry, but anybody who thinks Agile is about velocity, story points, planning poker, standups, retrospectives, backlog grooming, etc. has been sold…

What is actually Agile then, and how does one actually practice it?

/u/lr4444lr and /u/ajmurmann nailed it. "Agile" is just what the Agile Manifesto says. Strictly speaking, "Agile" in and of itself isn't even a methodology - it's just a set of principles, to which a number of concrete methodologies claim some association. They differ in the degree to which they faithfully represent the spirit of the manifesto.

So really, you're never "doing Agile". You're "doing $X" where $X can be Scrum, XP, Crystal, AgileUP, SAFe, or whatever. At most companies what you get, in my experience, is a bastardized version of Scrum cobbled together by somebody who has never actually developed software, took a couple of Scrum classes (maybe), paid too much money for some "help" from some "Agile coaches", and is hoping some of the resulting shit will stick to the wall.

FWIW, I've actually had the pleasure of working at company that did Scrum and really did it well, and it was honestly a great experience. Actual Scrum, as documented in the Scrum Guide, isn't bad. The problem is when people take base Scrum and start tacking on additional shit (see: "agile coaches" and "agile consultants") and wind up with a bureaucratic / kafka-esque tarpit of interminable meetings, ceremonies, and artifacts. In other words, pretty much exactly what the Agile Manifesto stood against in the first place.

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#407

Post by kirso »

davidw wrote: post #183
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #6

> I have come to a realization that I don't really enjoy Software Engineering(& the processes that it comes with) but I do love programming & solving problems. I can almost guarantee that you’re just at the wrong company. Some software companies can turn even the simplest tasks into a grueling series of processes, endless meetings, and joint work across a big number of “stakeholders”. These companies will take the jo…

I think the real "unicorns" are * Small/medium size companies where you recognize most everyone even if you don't work with them. There are enough people so you don't have to do things you're not qualified for like in the very early days of a startup. * Steady growth, but not crazy, venture fueled moonshots. * Selling something that earns enough money to grow the business in a fairly organic way. I worked in a place…

So much this.

After 14 years in a workforce, my happiest moments were in software SMB (joined at 10 people and left at around 100).

Never felt like work. We were just building something cool together as a team on the same page.

Turned profitable after Series A and never raised again.

Later down the road I realised that these are the real unicorns once I actually landed in terrible jobs or corporates and how disengaged everyone is in the legacy organisations. Was genuinely shocked that these companies don't go out of business.

I am now trying to collate the list of companies which fit the criteria above but it's really hard.

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#409

Post by mindcrime »

SAI_Peregrinus wrote: post #310
LAC-Tech wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read the original manifesto and principles, and quite frankly I'm not that impressed with them either. Some of the principles are actively harmful, like welcoming changing requirements late in the process.

Yep. "Individuals and interactions over processes and tools" OK, not terrible, but why not "interactions and tools over individuals and processes"? De-emphasize individual's egos and ritualized processes, focus on the things that get work done and communication between entities. "Working software over comprehensive documentation" Tends to make very frustrating-to-use software, because it's never fully working and has…

Note that the AM doesn't say not to create documentation, or use processes and tools, etc. It just says to favor the alternatives with the implication that you have to exercise some judgment and discretion on deciding what to do when. The AM in and of itself isn't a methodology and it isn't terribly prescriptive. It's a high level description of a general notion of how to approach things, which can be (and should be) tailored to your circumstances.
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