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Europe's largest deposit of rare earth metals discovered in Sweden

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Re: Europe's largest deposit of rare earth metals discovered in Sweden

#201

Post by alkonaut »

olivermarks wrote: post #191
alkonaut wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It often is as I understand it. But it's also helping reduce pollution through electrification so it's a balance. I (being not far from there) feel it's better to have polluting operations like this in heavily regulated and modern economies where there is a good chance the damage can be minimized at least.

It's important to understand that electrification does not reduce pollution.

Depends on two things 1) what is being electrified - it’s not just about cars and 2) how the power is generated.

Re: Europe's largest deposit of rare earth metals discovered in Sweden

#202

Post by culi »

keewee7 wrote: post #125
qwerty456127 wrote: post #62

Isn't rare earth metals mining insanely pollutive? I've heard they can be found all over the world but only China mines them massively because nobody else is willing to destroy their ecology.

Maybe it's time for the rest of the world to do sustainable rare earth metal mining or end up being more geopolitically subjugated by China and Russia.

What exactly does "sustainable rare earth metal mining" mean and look like? Are there any actual examples of it?

Also not all minerals are so evenly spread. For example, it's estimated that half of all cobalt reserves is in little old Democratic Republic of the Congo

Re: Europe's largest deposit of rare earth metals discovered in Sweden

#203

Post by culi »

daneel_w wrote: post #177
qwerty456127 wrote: post #62

Isn't rare earth metals mining insanely pollutive? I've heard they can be found all over the world but only China mines them massively because nobody else is willing to destroy their ecology.

It certainly depends on the industrial process as a whole. But it's worth pointing out that nobody ever had a complaint about gold, silver, platinum or diamond mining, nor about the unimaginable volumes of ore processed to acquire iron and copper. But somehow these days everyone likes to think that they know that rare earth metals are "the devil".

> nobody ever had a complaint about gold, silver, platinum or diamond mining

In what world? NGOs, academics, journalists, and non-profits have been speaking out about these and the blood diamond industries around them for decades at least

> Gold mining is one of the most destructive industries in the world. It can displace communities, contaminate drinking water, hurt workers, and destroy pristine environments

https://earthworks.org/issues/environmental-impacts-of-gold-...

> Most silver production results in large emissions of mercury to air, soil, and water. Where silver is extracted by small-scale miners, large quantities of mercury are used, resulting in large health and environmental damages.

http://www.env-health.org/IMG/pdf/silver_fact_sheet.pdf

> The mining, metal extraction and beneficiation phases are accompanied by air and water pollution, the generation of solid waste deposited on tailings dams and waste rock stockpiles, the abstraction of vast quantities of water and the use of huge quantities of energy

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/223232620_The_envir...

> Mineral resource exploitation also causes irreversible damage to the natural environment including deforestation, soil disturbance, air emissions, surface water pollution, groundwater contamination, dust, noise, workplace health and safety, and others.

http://www.imperial-consultants.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/202...

Re: Europe's largest deposit of rare earth metals discovered in Sweden

#204

Post by moloch-hai »

culi wrote: post #200
moloch-hai wrote: post #187

The value of many "rare earths" suddenly plummeted recently when an iron+nitrogen [edit: not "nickel"] alloy/crystallization ("allotrope") was discovered that approximates the properties of the best lanthanide magnets. ("Rare-earths" are not, incidentally, needed for [edit:batteries], wind turbines, or solar panels, however much certain people wish they were, or confidently claim.)

> "Rare-earths" are not, incidentally, needed for electric vehicles, wind turbines, or solar panels, however much certain people wish they were, or confidently claim. What exactly does this mean? EVs use a ton more rare earth minerals than conventional cars https://www.iea.org/data-and-statistics/charts/minerals-used... Solar panels use silicon, indium, gallium, selenium, cadmium, and tellurium. Neodymium and dyspros…

None of those used in solar panels are lanthanides.

Current EVs use some lanthanides in magnets (soon to be displaced, as noted), but not in the batteries.

Permanent magnets are used mainly in the smallest wind turbines, where offshore turbines are the biggest.

Re: Europe's largest deposit of rare earth metals discovered in Sweden

#206

Post by culi »

moloch-hai wrote: post #204
culi wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Rare-earths" are not, incidentally, needed for electric vehicles, wind turbines, or solar panels, however much certain people wish they were, or confidently claim. What exactly does this mean? EVs use a ton more rare earth minerals than conventional cars https://www.iea.org/data-and-statistics/charts/minerals-used... Solar panels use silicon, indium, gallium, selenium, cadmium, and tellurium. Neodymium and dyspros…

None of those used in solar panels are lanthanides. Current EVs use some lanthanides in magnets (soon to be displaced, as noted), but not in the batteries. Permanent magnets are used mainly in the smallest wind turbines, where offshore turbines are the biggest.

I see. I didn't realize "rare earth minerals" had a specific chemical definition

Re: Europe's largest deposit of rare earth metals discovered in Sweden

#208

Post by 2000UltraDeluxe »

robin_reala wrote: post #48

Not exactly surprising that it’s in Sweden, as many rare earth metals were first discovered here and are named after Swedish things: - Scandium from Scandinavia - Yttrium, Terbium, Erbium and Ytterbium from the village of Ytterby - Holmium from Stockholm - Thulium from Thule

Also, Tungsten.

Re: Europe's largest deposit of rare earth metals discovered in Sweden

#209

Post by moloch-hai »

telotortium wrote: post #198
moloch-hai wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://arpa-e.energy.gov/technologies/projects/iron-nickel-... You may ignore claims there that they are essential for batteries and wind turbines. But they are important in electric drones and robots.

That's from 2012, are there any further developments?

I misremembered, the new advance is iron/nitrogen magnets.

https://www.nironmagnetics.com

https://hackaday.com/2022/09/01/iron-nitrides-powerful-magne...

Re: Europe's largest deposit of rare earth metals discovered in Sweden

#210

Post by elihu »

jamil7 wrote: post #26
wuiheerfoj wrote: post #4

‚metals which are essential for, among other applications, the manufacture of electric vehicles and wind turbines‘ Great way to frame mining as eco-friendly haha. Is my take too skeptical? Are these very specific metals to eco-friendly production?

> Great way to frame mining as eco-friendly What's the alternative? If we want to electrify, it means more resource discovery and mining than we're already doing, plus likely mining more non-renewable fuels to power the intermediate infrastructure we will need to mine or recycle metals for renewables or EVs.

One use of rare earths is for permanent magnet motors. Induction motors don't use permanent magnets, but they tend to be significantly less efficient.

Permanent magnets can also be made without rare earths, but I expect the result would be a physically larger/heavier and/or less powerful motor. So, it's a trade-off.

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