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We need a lot more electricians

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Re: We need a lot more electricians

#471

Post by phpisthebest »

atoav wrote: post #455
shawabawa3 wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a GFCI installed in my 1930s built house the other week The circuit repeatedly tripped, so the electrician uninstalled it. To install the GFCI he would need to spend 1-2 days splitting circuits to find the leak(s) so instead of ~$40 + 1 hours labour it's potentially thousands of dollars

Yep, that means somewhere there is current flowing through some pipe, some wall, something. And that is bad. 30mA is not much of a threshold, but it has been chosen because currents above that (or currents that flow longer than the 0,03s it should take maximum to trip an RCD will kill people. Not to speak of fire hazards. So, somewhere you have a thing, that could kill you, a firend, a loved one or whomever. And you…

[flagged]

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#472

Post by greedo »

Filligree wrote: post #314
_whiteCaps_ wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Extension cords are a bad idea. Especially since you can buy 10A rated cords that can be plugged into 15A sockets. https://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-55-ft-16-3-Green-Outdoor-Ext... There's a really good explanation in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_q-xnYRugQ

Then the fuse would blow, right?

The fuse wouldn't blow because you couldn't draw enough amperage through the cord to trigger it. Instead, the cord would melt and start a fire.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#473

Post by phpisthebest »

tibbon wrote: post #116
anikom15 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which country? In the U.S., GFCIs only need to be installed in specific locations, which is good. I do not want my refrigerator or computer on a GFCI. In the U.K., you just can’t have plugs in bathrooms (aside from the shaver plug), which is probably more sensible.

You need a AFCI in most places now. In the 2020 edition of the NEC®, Section 210.12 requires that for dwelling units, all 120-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets or devices installed in dwelling unit kitchens, family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways, laundry areas, or similar rooms or areas shall be…

Is there a site that show what states have adopted what version? looking at my states webpage the official adopted code for my state is NFPA 70 - National Electrical Code, 2008 Edition.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#474

Post by rasz »

treeman79 wrote: post #69
epistasis wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is mooooore than enough spare grid capacity to deliver the electricity to electrify homes. We size the grid for peak capacity, not for average capacity, which means that there's a very low overall usage amount. And the big drivers of additional electricity, heating and transportation, are easily shiftable to non-peak times. And as we have smarter devices, and more time of use billing, load shifting will be easy…

A recent cold snap left East coast with rolling black outs across a number of states. This is not California where you put on a warm jacket. You heat the home, find shelter somewhere or die. I kept getting notes to hold off on using appliances for a few days. Can imagine that if our areas heat was electric that would have collapsed the grid.

They just shut down 2,000 megawatt Indian Point because "green energy".

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#475

Post by silisili »

rootusrootus wrote: post #449
atoav wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are some devices that trip GFCIs In Germany where I lived for the past decade I have never seen a non-faulty device trip a RCB. The ones that tripped it hat the full 230V on their metal case.

I've got three examples for ya. 1. Deep freezers are prone (for reasons unclear to me at my level of knowledge) to tripping GFCIs. For this reason they're allowed to be on a non-GFCI outlet in the garage (must be a single outlet receptacle by itself on the circuit). 2. Downstream GFCIs are prone to messing with upstream GFCIs, so you should not put them in series. My RV has it's own power distribution panel with GFCI…

My brand new Samsung fridge has tripped the upstream GFCI since day 1. Called an electrician, and he just moved it off the upstream circuit and called it a day

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#476

Post by sbierwagen »

Animats wrote: post #322
BitwiseFool wrote: post #11

Something to keep in mind is that most homes, if they haven't been constructed within the last 10 years, likely have some non-compliance with the current electrical code. For instance, I needed to install an exterior disconnect which wound up costing me more than a thousand dollars on top of the existing electrical work I needed done. The electrician also needed to replace my existing ground wires because they are su…

> Even after the replacement was complete the electrician had to come back and redo the wiring connections because the inspector said the PVC joint at the top of the box had to be metal instead. Right. There must be a reliable metallic path to ground. This is a big problem with PVC pipe retrofits. In older houses, plumbing and conduit are metal and good grounds, and grounding to plumbing used to be permitted. Once PV…

I was in a McDonalds the other day and an ad for my former local's apprenticeship program played over the radio. So there is some advertising here.

Since they're a union, the pay scale is public: https://ibew46.com/media/6924/020623_020424_residential_area... Apprentices start at $21.30.

That McDonalds had a big "now hiring" sign out front, advertising $21 an hour. Hm. Not sure if the extra thirty cents would be worth tying yourself to construction's boom and bust cycle.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#477

Post by worthless-trash »

rootusrootus wrote: post #449
atoav wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are some devices that trip GFCIs In Germany where I lived for the past decade I have never seen a non-faulty device trip a RCB. The ones that tripped it hat the full 230V on their metal case.

I've got three examples for ya. 1. Deep freezers are prone (for reasons unclear to me at my level of knowledge) to tripping GFCIs. For this reason they're allowed to be on a non-GFCI outlet in the garage (must be a single outlet receptacle by itself on the circuit). 2. Downstream GFCIs are prone to messing with upstream GFCIs, so you should not put them in series. My RV has it's own power distribution panel with GFCI…

Now i'm a little confused, I think i have a global one of these in my house. I don't think there is a power point that isn't protected by one of these earth leakage type devices (I think they are called different things in Australia). They have been standard for a long, long time.

How do telsas charge in Australia ?

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#478

Post by Animats »

mcbishop wrote: post #368
repiret wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... and grounding to plumbing used to be permitted Do you have a citation for this? I was under the impression that using plumbing as equipment ground was never allowed, but that conductive plumbing has required to be bonded to ground for some time. I was further under the impression that by code, plumbing repairs couldn't leave behind unbonded sections of conductive plumbing.

I assisted with a few residential electrical-service upgrades last year (in California). ...If the plumbing pipe could be used as one of two paths to ground (i.e. conductive all the way), it was. Otherwise two grounding stakes were installed instead of one. > by code, plumbing repairs couldn't leave behind unbonded sections of conductive plumbing I assume that's correct, but I think shady / lazy / amateur contractors…

Today it's more like you're bonding the plumbing to ground than assuming it is ground. That way, if something shorts to a pipe, you trip a breaker rather than energizing the water system.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#479

Post by OJFord »

jacquesm wrote: post #437
OJFord wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow ok, I've never seen that in the wild. RCDs are required on all circuits including lighting in the current regs (i.e. old installations can not have them and be compliant, but they have been required and socket circuits for a long time; bathroom & outdoor lighting for less; all lighting more recently). Maybe these sockets are for when you have no more room in the panel and don't want to replace it, but need it upg…

The lack of grounded sockets in the US has always been a complete mystery to me. Especially for kitchen appliances.

It's weird on imported goods here in the UK too. Macs are infamous for the fuzzy feeling of the double not-quite-insulated chassis. My Marantz amplifier (not US made but also sold there) that arrived today is the same. Weird looking plug too, like they had to go out of their way to source a dummy Earth to Earthless kettle lead and the result is bizarre and cheap looking but it's all they could get, because it's a weird requirement.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#480

Post by nemo44x »

danans wrote: post #442
nemo44x wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I know exactly what to expect when I set my induction stove to 8 (out of 10) and let my daily-use pan heat for 1 minute. That's the setting at which I can temper oil with dry spices without burning them. Same, I just turn a knob and it outputs the same BTUs every time - it isn't random. >An induction stove can heat anything quickly, not just water. And importantly it can rapidly change temperature, unlike a resista…

> Seriously, get a nice gas range and a high end copper pan and cook with it - you'll be amazed. I cooked on gas for 25 years, including with all sorts of pots/pans. It was great and I preferred it greatly to resistance electric stoves. And then I switched to induction and couldn't be happier with both the cooking performance and the indoor air quality improvement. You (and many others) aren't concerned with or don't…

> To each their own!

I think that’s the problem. There’s unelected officials suggesting they’re going to just ban them based on a biased (and very faulty - it isn’t quality science) study funded by activists groups. I’ve used induction and it’s ok but it doesn’t feel right to be, I can’t use materials I prefer, and I can’t do things like hold a pan a bit higher for a second, flambé, etc. I love induction for deep frying though. It’s much safer!

I have a 1300 cfm exhaust with a makeup air system so I’m not concerned.

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