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We need a lot more electricians

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Re: We need a lot more electricians

#311

Post by mfer »

vel0city wrote: post #236
mfer wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd imagine if a given line can sustain peak heat AC usage it would also just be fine with flatter profile of heating the property. We aren't talking about heat and AC. We also need to cover EVs, electric tools (like chainsaws), electric heat, electric stoves, and other things. There is a push to electrify all the things.

> electric tools (like chainsaws) The amount of electricity shifting all gas powered tools like chainsaws and lawn mowers to electricity is less than a drop in the bucket compared to the other needs. Changing all my tools from gas to battery increased my electric bill in the peak growing season by like 2.5kWh/month, compared to a usual usage of ~2,000kWh/mo. Its also a pretty easy to time shift demand and doesn't nee…

Now your nit picking on one thing on the list. EVs, home heat/AC, and stoves are all substantial (depending on how much you use the stove). When looked at on a macro scale there is an impact.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#312

Post by greedo »

quickthrowman wrote: post #226
pjc50 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If it’s so simple, why didn’t you do it UK note: under "Part P" rules, it is significantly harder to legally do your own electrical work. https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/find-an-electrician...

Most jurisdictions in the US allow homeowners to self-perform electrical work. Electrical inspectors tend to be a lot more picky and thorough with homeowner performed work since homeowners are notoriously bad electricians.

I did all the wiring in my basement (except connecting to the panel), and the inspector did a cursory inspection, both rough-in and final. He looked at maybe two of the outlets (none of the lighting fixtures), and then on final just used a receptacle checker. Now as a DIYer with OCD and a fear of burning down my house, I had tried to be VERY careful, but it was the first electrical work I had done. Either I'm an electrical prodigy or he was lackadaisical.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#313

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #255
Kon-Peki wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your willingness to repeatedly follow a process without deviation puts you into a much smaller group than the general population. Yes, the average person can do it, but many won't. And it will be innocent bystanders or firefighters or whatever that pay the ultimate price, not the sloppy guy or gal that saved a few dollars by doing it themselves. I wish that our building codes and permitting system had provisions for…

> I wish that our building codes and permitting system had provisions for "competent amateurs", but how on earth would you do that? What does this mean? Any “amateur” is allowed to do the work anytime they want (on their own home), and anyone can apply for a permit. They just have to pass the same inspection as everyone else. I do not see why the code (rules) would be different though, the principles of electricity a…

> Any “amateur” is allowed to do the work anytime they want (on their own home)

This is not true across all US states, let alone other countries.

I currently live in a jurisdiction that does allow home owners to do their own electrical work, but they have to pass a (demanding) exam before being licensed to do so. In my previous home state, home owners were not allowed - even if you did the work, a licensed electrician had to be "seen to be responsible".

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#314

Post by Filligree »

_whiteCaps_ wrote: post #279
Filligree wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Generally (in the USA) if you touch something in your home, you need to bring it up to code. You touch a wall, well now you need to make sure that wall has a socket in it, for example. Sorry, is there a requirement that every single wall should have a socket? ...that's what extension cords are for.

Extension cords are a bad idea. Especially since you can buy 10A rated cords that can be plugged into 15A sockets. https://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-55-ft-16-3-Green-Outdoor-Ext... There's a really good explanation in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_q-xnYRugQ

Then the fuse would blow, right?

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#315

Post by digitalsushi »

throwaway4aday wrote: post #195
dml2135 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just have a wood stove or fireplace for emergencies? Harder in cities but anywhere with detached homes, this doesn't seem like a difficult problem to solve.

A wood stove isn't a trivial thing to maintain or install. Sure we could require everyone to add one but that's a huge expense for a lot of people. After they have one, you need to manage your firewood which involves having enough for your needs delivered ahead of when you need it, you need to store it somewhere it will stay dry, you need to educate people on how to properly use the wood stove, etc. and that's not ev…

A wood stove is an excellent piece of infrastructure to protect a house that can freeze solid if the electricity goes out.

When we lose power, we can't even flush the toilets because we have an electric well pump. (We should get a generator, perhaps). But I can always go outside and find some wood and keep the house from freezing and bursting. (I guess it also requires me to be here, to be transparent)

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#316

Post by CorrectHorseBat »

anikom15 wrote: post #100
londons_explore wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> likely have some non-compliance with the current electrical code. It frustrates me that every year quite a lot of people are killed due to old houses not having whole-building GFCI's. A GFCI costs only $20 and can be installed inside 10 minutes. So it seems crazy to be letting people die... Yet typically electrical regs require that if an electrician installs a GFCI, they bring the whole house up to modern standard…

Which country? In the U.S., GFCIs only need to be installed in specific locations, which is good. I do not want my refrigerator or computer on a GFCI. In the U.K., you just can’t have plugs in bathrooms (aside from the shaver plug), which is probably more sensible.

> I do not want my refrigerator or computer on a GFCI

Why not? Here in Belgium they are required everywhere and that works just fine.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#317

Post by carcostthrow »

brianwawok wrote: post #205
carcostthrow wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh it gets even funnier then that. So I took quick look into what it would actually take to upgrade the main circuit breaker in the house assuming a 100A to 200A upgrade is needed to accommodate both an EV and a heat pump. I thought it was $5000 or so. As it turns out, $5000 is for pole mounted service. It's range is actually around $15,000 to $25,000 for underground service, as it requires digging the line from the…

EV or not EV, I really think you want 200A service? It has been the standard for quite a few years, and I cannot imagine only having 100A service in a proper house (would be fine for an apartment or whatnot). Now I am higher electric usage than most, but I hit over 100A several times a day (but have never hit 200A and flipped my breaker). The actually switching out your circuit breaker from 100A to 200A is cheap (2-3…

>It has been the standard for quite a few years, and I cannot imagine only having 100A service in a proper house

100A service is fairly normal here for smaller homes. As heating here is primarily done by natural gas furnaces rather then electrical heating. Which make sense; gas is way cheaper to heat with here then electricity. And it saves a dollar for the developer.

I don't know about larger homes though; I'd imagine that they'd have 200A circuits but it wouldn't surprise me if they didn't unless the builder specifically requested it.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#318

Post by lisper »

yboris wrote: post #309
lisper wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you upgrade your wiring? Your old breakers were the size they were for a reason.

I didn't touch the wiring; just made sure to use the same exact amperage (though I bought all new breakers just in case, and upgraded one to an AFCI - Michigan doesn't require AFCI on everything as the rest of the country seems to mandate). I checked the wire with wire gauge with my wire strippers to make sure 15amp wire is never behind a 20amp breaker.

Sorry, I mis-read your original post. I read it as "upgrading to 30-amp circuits" rather than what it actually says, "upgrading to 30 circuits." My mistake. (In retrospect I should have realized that 30-amp circuits were unrealistic.)

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#319

Post by polski-g »

tibbon wrote: post #116
anikom15 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which country? In the U.S., GFCIs only need to be installed in specific locations, which is good. I do not want my refrigerator or computer on a GFCI. In the U.K., you just can’t have plugs in bathrooms (aside from the shaver plug), which is probably more sensible.

You need a AFCI in most places now. In the 2020 edition of the NEC®, Section 210.12 requires that for dwelling units, all 120-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets or devices installed in dwelling unit kitchens, family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways, laundry areas, or similar rooms or areas shall be…

AFCI trips on the smallest thing. Turning on my blender or microwave tripped it. I ended up downgrading to just GFCI in frustration.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#320

Post by ghostly_s »

Really buried the lede in the last paragraph imo:

> According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the mean annual wage for an electrician in the U.S. is about $63,000 compared with an average of $58,000 for all occupations.

They go on to point out it's higher in the Bay, and there's a wide range with many making more, but that's the mean so that means many are also making less. As explained earlier in the piece those high-paying union jobs are not the ones where this new residential retrofit demand is being generated. $5,000 above the average wage is a joke for a regulated, skilled trade. This will have to change.

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