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We need a lot more electricians

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Re: We need a lot more electricians

#321
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need a AFCI in most places now. In the 2020 edition of the NEC®, Section 210.12 requires that for dwelling units, all 120-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets or devices installed in dwelling unit kitchens, family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways, laundry areas, or similar rooms or areas shall be…

Some countries you have a single one for the whole building, rather than one per circuit. That dramatically lowers the cost. The only real downside is that if you accidentally put your finger in the toaster, rather than just the power to your kitchen cutting off, the power to the whole house cuts off. I think thats a fine tradeoff to save $1200.

Some OS's have a single task for the whole computer, rather than one per application.

The only real downside is that if your app accidentally dereferences NULL, rather than just your application crashing, the whole computer crashes.

... Sorry, somehow reminded me of the early days of the Macintosh's OS before it was "true multitasking" (as the Amiga kids would love to tell us).

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#322

Something to keep in mind is that most homes, if they haven't been constructed within the last 10 years, likely have some non-compliance with the current electrical code. For instance, I needed to install an exterior disconnect which wound up costing me more than a thousand dollars on top of the existing electrical work I needed done. The electrician also needed to replace my existing ground wires because they are su…

> Even after the replacement was complete the electrician had to come back and redo the wiring connections because the inspector said the PVC joint at the top of the box had to be metal instead.

Right. There must be a reliable metallic path to ground.

This is a big problem with PVC pipe retrofits. In older houses, plumbing and conduit are metal and good grounds, and grounding to plumbing used to be permitted. Once PVC pipe came in, you have to assume that no pipe is grounded, and you need extra ground wires and stakes. This can happen due to a plumbing repair. Otherwise, a short to "ground" can energize the structure's entire water system.

In the original article, if your house doesn't have three-prong outlets, it's time for an full upgrade. You're at least half a century behind.

As for training new electricians, "In the past, Reyes recruited workers out of high school and trained them. But he’s reluctant to do it again. It costs his technicians time, it costs him money, and there’s no guarantee that the people he invests in will stick around because the job market is so competitive." Well, welcome to the free market. Maybe you have to pay more.

There are International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers apprenticeship programs not mentioned in the article. Here's Local 6, San Francisco.[1] They require high school graduation, a grade of C or better in algebra and trigonometry, and drug testing to become an apprentice. The apprenticeship is three years.

"Grid Alternatives partners with local organizations, like Homeboy Industries, a gang-intervention program, to introduce former inmates as well as other underrepresented people, to careers in solar. Those admitted to Grid’s training receive “wraparound supportive services” that address barriers they might have to participating, such as helping them get driver’s licenses, open bank accounts, or, for those formerly incarcerated, find attorneys." That may be starting too far down the food chain.

"But this past year, Laney’s program almost fell apart after one of its teachers, Forough Hashemi, announced she would be retiring at the end of the spring 2022 semester. Hashemi had been teaching six classes each semester, essentially holding the program together".

Laney College seems rather disorganized. Their web site says "Fall Classes Start August 24, 2020 – Enroll Now!". If their idea of recruiting is "we sent some letters and nobody responded", that's the college's problem.

[1] https://ibew6.org/

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Required to sheath ground in green? What on earth for? That makes ground less effective since you want any incidental contact with ground to ground the object touching it.

I believe that either a bare wire or a green wire is allowed. However no other colors. That was the case ~6 years ago when I checked the NEC.

I was a little surprised to read the original comment too. I've never seen a sheathed ground wire used in WA state (on residential).

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which country? In the U.S., GFCIs only need to be installed in specific locations, which is good. I do not want my refrigerator or computer on a GFCI. In the U.K., you just can’t have plugs in bathrooms (aside from the shaver plug), which is probably more sensible.

> I do not want my refrigerator or computer on a GFCI Why not? Here in Belgium they are required everywhere and that works just fine.

Whole-house GFCIs are far less sensitive than the GFCIs built right into the receptacle.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also funny how fridges are required to have their own circuit, but newer fridges are increasingly vfd/inverter drive, and don’t have surge power draws anymore. They use a few hundred watts continuously and that’s it. I’d be more quickly to find out my fridge died if the lights in the kitchen stopped working. Not sure why fridges don’t just have a battery-powered alarm that goes off when the temperature gets too high…

I have a lot of power surges in my area. Recently, the old power shut off, then power back on in 3 seconds thing happened - and the surge was enough to pop my fridge motors and cause a $900 repair. I upgraded them to not only a surge protector, but this little neat shut off device. It's a device that goes between the fridge and the wall outlet, and basically if for any reason this device loses power - it shuts off th…

Can you share what device you're using for the 3-minute shut-off and recovery?

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Extension cords are a bad idea. Especially since you can buy 10A rated cords that can be plugged into 15A sockets. https://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-55-ft-16-3-Green-Outdoor-Ext... There's a really good explanation in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_q-xnYRugQ

Then the fuse would blow, right?

That extension cord doesn't have a fuse.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I do not want my refrigerator or computer on a GFCI Why not? Here in Belgium they are required everywhere and that works just fine.

Whole-house GFCIs are far less sensitive than the GFCIs built right into the receptacle.

That does not explain why you wouldn't want a GFCI? It's not like you can't chain them.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#329
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> likely have some non-compliance with the current electrical code. It frustrates me that every year quite a lot of people are killed due to old houses not having whole-building GFCI's. A GFCI costs only $20 and can be installed inside 10 minutes. So it seems crazy to be letting people die... Yet typically electrical regs require that if an electrician installs a GFCI, they bring the whole house up to modern standard…

There is a good chance that if you installed GFCI in some old house it would just... trip due to shitty wiring. But yeah, the law should probably have exception for installing safety devices, it's better to have some than zero because someone can't afford it.

>There is a good chance that if you installed GFCI in some old house it would just... trip due to shitty wiring.

No, that's not true!

A GFCI measures the current going in and the current going out and if they are not equal it trips.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#330
post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> likely have some non-compliance with the current electrical code. It frustrates me that every year quite a lot of people are killed due to old houses not having whole-building GFCI's. A GFCI costs only $20 and can be installed inside 10 minutes. So it seems crazy to be letting people die... Yet typically electrical regs require that if an electrician installs a GFCI, they bring the whole house up to modern standard…

Good luck finding an easy-to-install whole house GFCI in the US market. IMO there should be standardized trip curves so that outlet GFCIs can coordinate with branch breaker GFCIs, which can coordinate with whole-house or other larger GFCIs, etc. You really don’t want a 5mA GFCI on your house. You do want a 5mA GFCI somewhere involved for a regular outlet, though, especially if it’s anywhere damp or wet. (And you prob…

> Good luck finding an easy-to-install whole house GFCI in the US market.

Not sure I'd want one, to be honest. There are some devices that trip GFCIs and I don't think I'd like my mains to trip that easily. I just use GFCI breakers as necessary. And certain circuits I go with AFCI instead.

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