A Redditor's insightful message for discouraged students • Hacker News Board

Re: A Redditor's insightful message for discouraged students

#101

Post by sp332 » Fri, Jan 06, 2012, 4:04 AM UTC

neilparikh wrote: post #94

sp332 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to grade a non-research paper that way though. For example, that class was a Humanities 101 class. We were supposed to do some analysis of whatever book we'd just read. So good grammar is not a large part of the grade, and factual correctness is not easy to check when you could "hit the stacks" and cross-reference any other books in the library. The teacher (who was good by the way, I'm blaming the system n…

Ya, many of my English papers are graded on factors like thought and understanding, supporting evidence etc. While, these are still subjective, for these and the measures you were marked on, it much easier to explain what a five out of five, what a four out of five is etc. rather than say effort. But, ya, it's way harder to come with fair, objective criteria for Humanities papers. (At least it is for my experienced h…

It's hard for everyone. He was one of the deans of a liberal arts college, and had had a paper published in Dickens Quarterly. So he really knew what he was talking about when it came to writing humanities papers. But in the discussion we had on grading, he admitted that there were very few rules. He would try just to be fair.

Re: A Redditor's insightful message for discouraged students

#102

Post by siphor » Fri, Jan 06, 2012, 5:08 AM UTC

sp332 wrote: post #83

neilparikh wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ya, effort is required for sure, but I think the papers should be marked according to categories that actually can be marked, such as grammar and spelling, factual correctness etc. There is still some subjectivity, but it's way more fair.

It's hard to grade a non-research paper that way though. For example, that class was a Humanities 101 class. We were supposed to do some analysis of whatever book we'd just read. So good grammar is not a large part of the grade, and factual correctness is not easy to check when you could "hit the stacks" and cross-reference any other books in the library. The teacher (who was good by the way, I'm blaming the system n…

There is also a lot of bias in this though. I have an interesting anecdote from this, one I'm not so proud of... For the first half of my writing 101 class I got a B-/C+ on every essay I wrote ~3-4. Then I took my girlfriends at the time "creative writing"/poem or whatever the assignment was and my teacher went bonkers about it thought it was better than sliced bread, tried to get me to take a creative writing class (which I milked and was like yaa i'll think about it). I wrote every paper after that and consistently got 95+ on them. Interestingly in the last paper one notable comment from her was "Your content is brilliant! your analysis of the book and your thoughts are the subject are amazing! however be careful with your sentence structure and grammer it detracts from the paper" I got a 97 on this and I put basically the same effort on this paper as I did in the beginning.

This is simple human bias if you expect something to be good it will be good, and has to do with how your teacher feels about you.

Re: A Redditor's insightful message for discouraged students

#103

Post by nas » Fri, Jan 06, 2012, 6:15 AM UTC

vijayr wrote: post #88

nice post. Can anyone share the tools/hacks that he is talking about? what worked for you, and what didn't?

We are three levels removed from the original post. This all seems very meta. ;-)

Anyhow, I don't have much for tips. I was like the OP, too confident from my own good and was almost crushed by a college engineering program.

I think my main problem is I often accomplish things by with intense fits of work. It's easy to underestimate the effectiveness of the slow-and-steady approach. I'm still working on improving with that.

Regarding college, my advice is go to class, do the reading, do the assignments. If you can find a group to study and do homework with, that helps. I'd also recommend reading "Getting Things Done". The power of identifying the next task for a project is truly amazing and the "get it out of your head" ready does reduce stress.

Re: A Redditor's insightful message for discouraged students

#104

Post by ctchocula » Fri, Jan 06, 2012, 9:17 AM UTC

b_emery wrote: post #93

leilavc wrote: post #63

For anybody looking for solid tips on how to apply this attitude to their academics, I've found Cal Newport's blog* an invaluable resource. It's been linked to here before, mainly for its recent posts on 'deliberate practice' versus 'flow', but he also describes many strategies and tactics that high-scoring students at Ivy League-level universities use. They've helped me invaluably, and I find it a real pity that mor…

I'm also a huge fan of that blog. This post is a favorite: http://calnewport.com/blog/2008/11/25/case-study-how-i-got-t... It redefined for me what it means to understand math.

Thanks for sharing! I enjoyed reading how clearly and precisely he showed a way to master a difficult subject.

The white printer paper reminded me of that "end artificial scarcity" article.

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3396669

Re: A Redditor's insightful message for discouraged students

#105

Post by Tichy » Fri, Jan 06, 2012, 10:29 AM UTC

What are good ways to learn how to study, though?

Re: A Redditor's insightful message for discouraged students

#106

Post by dasil003 » Fri, Jan 06, 2012, 3:45 PM UTC

sunchild wrote: post #77

dasil003 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not following your train of thought here. It seems like you have serious issues with academia, which is fine. But what does the assertion that intelligence and ability is honed by hard work and practice vs innate talent have to do with academic dogma? This is equally applicable to all human endeavor.

The debate about intelligence being a trait of nature vs. nurture is an academic debate, and not the takeaway here. What I took away from OP's story is that his friend "R" was a more useful source of lasting wisdom than his MIT instructors. Why? Because "R" had cultivated an air of confidence, charisma, and credibility. How "R" achieved this wisdom himself is a red herring. P.S. This also isn't about my gripes with a…

I'm intrigued by your ideas, but you're speaking in riddles.

A con man also cultivates confidence, charisma and credibility. That doesn't make him a source of lasting wisdom.

In any case, if you admire someone as a mentor, why would their path to success be a red herring? Wouldn't you naturally be curious about how they got where they are?

Re: A Redditor's insightful message for discouraged students

#107

Post by neilk » Fri, Jan 06, 2012, 5:28 PM UTC

NinetyNine wrote: post #99

neilk wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your consistent B- grade was a measure of the class, not your work. Sorry that the world is so unfair, but humanities courses (particularly 101 level) are rife with this. I once got an A in a philosophy course where I never even turned in any work. I think the teacher knew I was generally smart and argumentative, and just gave people marks accordingly.

Did you get data on how other students did? I received an A in a science/tech/policy class which I didn't do half the assignments for. Talking around a bit, everyone else I knew got an A as well.

I recall seeing a posted list that related student ID numbers to grades. I think I would remember if everyone got an A. Because I felt so guilty about that A that I did the assignments and turned them in, after the fact. The class was about morals and ethics, and the irony bothered me.

I wouldn't do that today, because I'm more aware of how irrelevant school is.

Re: A Redditor's insightful message for discouraged students

#108

Post by runjake » Fri, Jan 06, 2012, 6:10 PM UTC

jdc wrote: post #25

lhnz wrote: post #16

I wanted to cry, somebody replied: "if you could share us some of those skills." If it was possible we would and we could all just sit back and crib each other's notes on life. But this has to come from within you. You cannot share willpower, dedication and ambition. There's nothing else to it: it's not as if the knowledge isn't on the internet or in books for cheap... You can mould yourself a more conscientious pers…

But it did not come from within Inri; it seems rather clear that the author would have flunked out without R.'s coaching.

Nearly every epiphany comes with the help of other people -- either by direct instruction or observation.

Re: A Redditor's insightful message for discouraged students

#109

Post by matwood » Mon, Jan 09, 2012, 6:34 PM UTC

Quite literally this is why I love climbing mountains alone, particularly 14ers. Every time I climb one I go through a range of emotions over the 5-7 hours it takes to reach the summit and back.

When I start there is excitement as I see the peak in the distance. Then as I tire comes doubt and the fight with myself about turning around because no one would know, except me of course. The key is to never stop pushing forward. There often comes a point, especially on a new challenging mountain, where all I want to do is turn around. Instead I just focus on the next step in front of me. Step, breath, step, breath,... Then when I finally reach the top, the view is of course beautiful, but the real reward is looking back at the trail I followed and thinking that's impossible yet here I am.

Re: A Redditor's insightful message for discouraged students

#110

Post by Klinky » Tue, Jan 10, 2012, 4:04 PM UTC

ekm2 wrote: post #100

Klinky wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really haven't heard any successful startup founder say "My genetic make-up made my project successful". The truth is genetics do matter if for no other reason than the fact that who your parents are will greatly determine your opportunities later in life by the fact that they control the country you're born in. Not to mention that your family's mental or physical health history can have a great impact on you as we…

"My appeal isn't to give people a reason to be lazy, but to admit that we don't know how the brain learns or re-learns things." If we dont know how the brain learns why should we hurriedly conclude that it is genetic and fixed.Why cant we adopt an attitude that will make us better and work our butts off?

Why cant we adopt an attitude that will make us better and work our butts off?

Because the point of a learning disability is that the person is working their butt off already but still struggling.

It's like having two people try to catch a pig, but one of those pigs is greased. If you tell both participants to use exactly the same effort to catch the pig, the person who has to get the greased pig will probably fail. The person with the greased pig may even try harder than the other person yet still fail to catch the pig.

There isn't an easy solution to mental illness or learning disorders. Again, I am not saying that we should tell people to not try hard, I am just saying that people shouldn't go around saying learning disabilities are an excuse for the lazy or those who don't like to work their butts off.