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A Redditor's insightful message for discouraged students

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Re: A Redditor's insightful message for discouraged students

#31

Slightly off topic, but I'm sick of post titles that start with "A Redditor's ...". A title like that is just going to encourage comments and culture from reddit which is usually inappropriate here. "Redditors" are mostly normal people, "An insightful message for discouraged students" would have been a perfectly good title to this.

Agreed. There is some bias against reddit here, which is fine, HN & reddit have different goals. But this sort of "A Redditor's …" makes me feel like pro-redditors are trying to say "Look! Look! We're not all bad". The goal seems to be reconsiliation, but in reality it is just divisive.

Re: A Redditor's insightful message for discouraged students

#32
This line of thought very much touches on how students are badly taught, I doubt MIT are as bad as where I studied which had the scribe lecturing approach.

Eric Mazur advocates the peer instruction method of lecturing (http://mazur.harvard.edu/research/detailspage.php?rowid=8)

Students should always be at the lecture with the content in advance to discuss in some form such as peer instruction. My University didn't even release a reading list of Mathematical or Computer Science material prior to the course beginning.

Re: A Redditor's insightful message for discouraged students

#33

I agree with him when he says that it is mostly how hard you work, dedication, and ambition. But wouldn't we just be fooling ourselves when we say it's not genetic? Maybe I'm wrong but, there are such things as kids that knowledge comes easier to, and kids that they simply can't understand something. Also, for example, a kid with ADHD is woefully behind on the "being able to sit and work" ability. I think it's nice t…

It's true that some people are genetically more intelligent than others. What matters is what you do with your intelligence, which only makes the work easier or harder, and the amount of improvement. People can get much better or worse, regardless of their genetic characteristics. After all anything genetic has been simply given for free..

Re: A Redditor's insightful message for discouraged students

#34
post #16

I wanted to cry, somebody replied: "if you could share us some of those skills." If it was possible we would and we could all just sit back and crib each other's notes on life. But this has to come from within you. You cannot share willpower, dedication and ambition. There's nothing else to it: it's not as if the knowledge isn't on the internet or in books for cheap... You can mould yourself a more conscientious pers…

Your post makes me grumpy for the following reason: What you're talking about isn't a failure of willpower, dedication or ambition. It's a failure of knowledge. It's a failure of knowledge of the resources that are available to them, and it's a failure to awaken from the Samsara of self-doubt. Inri137's doing the Buddhist thing and trying to shake people awake. These are skills that you can acquire. Sure it's modulat…

> Inri137's doing the Buddhist thing and trying to shake people awake. These are skills that you can acquire.

You are right, but I didn't say that you couldn't acquire these skills. I was trying to be particular with my choice of words: "You can mould yourself [...through what] you had to start with".

Re: A Redditor's insightful message for discouraged students

#35

I agree with him when he says that it is mostly how hard you work, dedication, and ambition. But wouldn't we just be fooling ourselves when we say it's not genetic? Maybe I'm wrong but, there are such things as kids that knowledge comes easier to, and kids that they simply can't understand something. Also, for example, a kid with ADHD is woefully behind on the "being able to sit and work" ability. I think it's nice t…

> there are such things as kids that knowledge comes easier to

Of course, if it's possible to learn how to learn--that is, if you can learn more efficient study methods--one would expect to see this disparity (effort expended per unit of knowledge acquired [not that you could measure this]) even in a hypothetical population of genetic clones raised in different environments.

As to why downplaying genetic potential could be a good thing, I've got this excellent pg quote fairly well seared into my brain:

"I'm not saying there's no such thing as genius. But if you're trying to choose between two theories and one gives you an excuse for being lazy, the other one is probably right." - http://www.paulgraham.com/hs.html

Re: A Redditor's insightful message for discouraged students

#36
For me, this read like a manifesto for making your hamster wheel spin as fast as the other hamsters. The OP's core message (i.e., that intelligence is not in-born, but is earned by self-discipline and hard work) seemed very myopic to me, and bound up in the self-congratulatory world of academia. It starts from a position that rests on conclusions about the value of formal education that are no longer dogma for me.

At first, I felt depressed after reading it and all the fawning responses to it. Then, I remembered this parable about how knowledge comes from people, not places:

> "At a gathering of divines, the Mullah was seated right at the end of the room, farthest from the place of honor. He began to tell jokes, and soon people were crowded around him, laughing and listening. Nobody was taking any notice of the greybeard who was giving a learned discourse. When he could no longer hear himself speak, the president of the assembly roared out: ‘You must be silent! Nobody may talk unless he sits where the Chief sits." "I don’t know how you see it," said the Mullah, "but it seems to me that where I sit is where the Chief sits."

After recalling this parable, I realized that I had initially misunderstood the OP's insight. His message was really the same as the Mullah's in many ways.

Re: A Redditor's insightful message for discouraged students

#37

For me, this read like a manifesto for making your hamster wheel spin as fast as the other hamsters. The OP's core message (i.e., that intelligence is not in-born, but is earned by self-discipline and hard work) seemed very myopic to me, and bound up in the self-congratulatory world of academia. It starts from a position that rests on conclusions about the value of formal education that are no longer dogma for me. At…

I think this post has important implications for business just as academia. It's about not falling back on the "I'm not smart enough to do that" excuse.

Re: A Redditor's insightful message for discouraged students

#38

For me, this read like a manifesto for making your hamster wheel spin as fast as the other hamsters. The OP's core message (i.e., that intelligence is not in-born, but is earned by self-discipline and hard work) seemed very myopic to me, and bound up in the self-congratulatory world of academia. It starts from a position that rests on conclusions about the value of formal education that are no longer dogma for me. At…

I'm not following your train of thought here. It seems like you have serious issues with academia, which is fine. But what does the assertion that intelligence and ability is honed by hard work and practice vs innate talent have to do with academic dogma? This is equally applicable to all human endeavor.

Re: A Redditor's insightful message for discouraged students

#39

I agree with him when he says that it is mostly how hard you work, dedication, and ambition. But wouldn't we just be fooling ourselves when we say it's not genetic? Maybe I'm wrong but, there are such things as kids that knowledge comes easier to, and kids that they simply can't understand something. Also, for example, a kid with ADHD is woefully behind on the "being able to sit and work" ability. I think it's nice t…

That's one of those facts that is probably true, but not useful (at least to an individual plotting their own course.) If you feel stupid, what's the more likely thing? That you are up against a fundamental barrier, or that you haven't worked hard enough? What's the better outcome, that you knuckle down or give up? Knowing the genetic basis for intelligence is kinda like knowing about obscure diseases. When you have…

Also if you feel smart and you think you can coast through life maybe you can, but you're equally foregoing your full potential.

Re: A Redditor's insightful message for discouraged students

#40
post #16

I wanted to cry, somebody replied: "if you could share us some of those skills." If it was possible we would and we could all just sit back and crib each other's notes on life. But this has to come from within you. You cannot share willpower, dedication and ambition. There's nothing else to it: it's not as if the knowledge isn't on the internet or in books for cheap... You can mould yourself a more conscientious pers…

Actually Inri137 (MIT advice guy) says the following:

"He showed me some of those tools, but what I really ended up learning was how to go about finding, building, and refining my own set of cognitive tools."

Sadly, he does not mention anything else about those tools (of his mentor at MIT), nor how he went about building his own set.

In life, you learn bit by bit from others(in person, through books, net, etc.)

Unfortunately,his post does not provide any real hard information, just good inspiration, which of course is nice.

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