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FAA NOTAM System Outage

fly.faa.gov

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Re: FAA NOTAM System Outage

#141

Post by bombcar »

maxcan wrote: post #136
bombcar wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun but deadly. They’re not wrong about the absolute avalanche of irrelevant data that will be used to show you “you should have known” - hence the proliferation of “interpretation” services.

100%. As a GA pilot who mostly flies under IFR, the NOTAM system is borderline useless to me. For every warning about an approach being altered or a runway closed, there are 100s of "birds invof airport" or "unlit crane 50' AGL 5 miles from the field" NOTAMs. And even for the relevant NOTAMs, Foreflight will highlight them for approaches etc and ATC won't send you to a closed runway or taxiway.

Yeah, NOTAMs come into play when the shit hits the fan; radios are dead and you can't reach the tower kinda thing, but in that case just be sure you declared emergency, then they (probably) won't get you much for landing on a closed runway or a taxiway.

Re: FAA NOTAM System Outage

#143

Post by jjav »

ineedasername wrote: post #128
ineedasername wrote: post #124

I'm surprised there's not more activity on this here on HN. I guess info is limited, so I found what I could from ATCSCC notices for today [1]. These are all the notices but portions only w/ redundant bits removed. See link in citation if you want full messages. Times here appear to be GMT: 004 DCC 01/11/23 NOTAM OUTAGE HOTLINE_FYI 01/11/23 00:47 THE NOTAM OUTAGE HOTLINE IS BEING ACTIVATED TO ADDRESS THE EQUIPMENT OU…

I wanted to keep my above comment to the data only, so I'll post this here: "Equipment Failure" can cover just about anything. I think the "gut" reaction the public might have here when hearing that phrase is that it was physical equipment, but really it could have been software, network linkages, really anything. I hope the real cause here doesn't get buried somewhere in lack of follow up. Also I really wish I'd bee…

> I wanted to keep my above comment to the data only, so I'll post this here: "Equipment Failure" can cover just about anything.

Stuxnet was after all an equipment failure. Sure, with an interesting plot to get there.

(Just commenting on the term "equipment failure", don't know anything about the FAA failure of today.)

Re: FAA NOTAM System Outage

#144

Post by wstuartcl »

jjav wrote: post #143
ineedasername wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wanted to keep my above comment to the data only, so I'll post this here: "Equipment Failure" can cover just about anything. I think the "gut" reaction the public might have here when hearing that phrase is that it was physical equipment, but really it could have been software, network linkages, really anything. I hope the real cause here doesn't get buried somewhere in lack of follow up. Also I really wish I'd bee…

> I wanted to keep my above comment to the data only, so I'll post this here: "Equipment Failure" can cover just about anything. Stuxnet was after all an equipment failure. Sure, with an interesting plot to get there. (Just commenting on the term "equipment failure", don't know anything about the FAA failure of today.)

FAA and most all global air systems and services tend to use their own nomenclature for communicating to pilots -- I would read "equipment failure" as a term that pilots would use and understand as "a temporary or permanent failure of software or hardware in the system" and not read into it any additional common sense from other areas of expertise.

Re: FAA NOTAM System Outage

#145

Post by azherebtsov »

maxcan wrote: post #140
dpe82 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nit: it's just "Ukraine" not "the Ukraine." See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_Ukraine

Double nit: this was not a misuse the deprecated term "The Ukraine" but the correct use of 'the' attaching to "Ukrainian one" referring to the NOTAM basically telling everyone to remain clear of Ukrainian airspace.

Triple nit: “airspaces” - there are 5 FIRs and 1 UIR in Ukraine https://uksatse.ua/index.php?s=330da740cf9126adde95bad0face2...

Re: FAA NOTAM System Outage

#146

Post by ineedasername »

maxcan wrote: post #136
bombcar wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun but deadly. They’re not wrong about the absolute avalanche of irrelevant data that will be used to show you “you should have known” - hence the proliferation of “interpretation” services.

100%. As a GA pilot who mostly flies under IFR, the NOTAM system is borderline useless to me. For every warning about an approach being altered or a runway closed, there are 100s of "birds invof airport" or "unlit crane 50' AGL 5 miles from the field" NOTAMs. And even for the relevant NOTAMs, Foreflight will highlight them for approaches etc and ATC won't send you to a closed runway or taxiway.

Seems like it's the sort of thing that's borderline useless right up until the moment it's absolutely essential.

Like the smoke alarms in my house, which are actually wired up to mains so don't technically need a battery, but they still have to have a battery in them and will give high pitched chirps ever few minutes when the battery is dead. And since there's so many in the house, and the chirp only comes every few minutes, it's a PITA to find the exact one that needs replacing.

So annoying, and again it's wired to mains so it worked without batteries! Except in a fire the fire might fry the house's magic box of energy delivery leaving only the batteries as the power source and then I really really really want them to work.

Re: FAA NOTAM System Outage

#147

Post by marcosdumay »

bombcar wrote: post #98
rwmj wrote: post #56

Fun stuff about NOTAMs: https://fixingnotams.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/Field-Gu...

Fun but deadly. They’re not wrong about the absolute avalanche of irrelevant data that will be used to show you “you should have known” - hence the proliferation of “interpretation” services.

Interestingly, that seems to be a US-only problem.

Re: FAA NOTAM System Outage

#148

Post by azherebtsov »

bombcar wrote: post #141
maxcan wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100%. As a GA pilot who mostly flies under IFR, the NOTAM system is borderline useless to me. For every warning about an approach being altered or a runway closed, there are 100s of "birds invof airport" or "unlit crane 50' AGL 5 miles from the field" NOTAMs. And even for the relevant NOTAMs, Foreflight will highlight them for approaches etc and ATC won't send you to a closed runway or taxiway.

Yeah, NOTAMs come into play when the shit hits the fan; radios are dead and you can't reach the tower kinda thing, but in that case just be sure you declared emergency, then they (probably) won't get you much for landing on a closed runway or a taxiway.

It works in both directions. If someone hits a crane in the fog they will present a NOTAM and you cannot argue that you have not been warned.

Re: FAA NOTAM System Outage

#149

Post by spookthesunset »

briandear wrote: post #105
VLM wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its a flight planning mystery. Lets say you are not flying to, but flying by, my hometown airport. You decide arbitrarily to use it as a divert in case of awful weather or engine trouble enroute or you just want a bathroom break (this is more of a Cessna 172 airport than a 747 airport) I found a cached list of nine current NOTAMs for my home airport. Because its always better to overinform than to underinform, until…

Nailed it exactly. Also be advised that birds are in the vicinity of the airport.

Be advised somebody is mowing the grass near the baggage terminal.

Re: FAA NOTAM System Outage

#150

Post by toast0 »

sandworm101 wrote: post #112

I've got a trip to take in a couple weeks. I have a choice: 4 hours of driving followed by two regional flights. Or just forget flying and drive 16 hours point to point. Between today's issues and all the headaches at YVR over the holidays, driving 16 hours seems more comfortable and less stressful than rolling the dice with regional airline travel. I would rather be stuck driving my car for a day than spend a day sl…

How many people in the car and how many drivers? What do you expect for the weather? Anywhere you want to stop somewhere in the middle?

Probably less effort and time to fly, but a lot of waiting without agency.

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