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FAA NOTAM System Outage

fly.faa.gov

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Re: FAA NOTAM System Outage

#121

Post by mgkimsal »

outericky wrote: post #119
sandworm101 wrote: post #112

I've got a trip to take in a couple weeks. I have a choice: 4 hours of driving followed by two regional flights. Or just forget flying and drive 16 hours point to point. Between today's issues and all the headaches at YVR over the holidays, driving 16 hours seems more comfortable and less stressful than rolling the dice with regional airline travel. I would rather be stuck driving my car for a day than spend a day sl…

Depending on the length of the stay and whether you need a car, I'd do the road trip in a heartbeat.

Whenever I opt for 'roadtrip', almost inevitably, about 4-5 hours in, I wish I were flying. When I fly, I don't usually say "oh, I wish I'd driven" (unless there's a delay or problem).

As I've driven more, I need to allot myself more stops. If a trip is over 10 hours, I'll probably split it in 2 days, and stay overnight some place. 20 years ago, I would have 'pressed on', but... it's usually not worth it any more. But some of the 'cost savings' of driving go away when you factor in hotels.

Re: FAA NOTAM System Outage

#123

Post by rootusrootus »

ceejayoz wrote: post #103
yuppie_scum wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Airlines view technology as a cost center.

This is the FAA's system, not the airlines'.

GP asked about both systems. It's worth noting that the FAA's systems are brittle for an entirely different reason than, say, Southwest Airlines'.

Re: FAA NOTAM System Outage

#124

Post by ineedasername »

I'm surprised there's not more activity on this here on HN. I guess info is limited, so I found what I could from ATCSCC notices for today [1]. These are all the notices but portions only w/ redundant bits removed. See link in citation if you want full messages. Times here appear to be GMT:

    004 DCC 01/11/23 NOTAM OUTAGE HOTLINE_FYI 01/11/23 00:47
        THE NOTAM OUTAGE HOTLINE IS BEING ACTIVATED TO ADDRESS THE EQUIPMENT
        OUTAGE ISSUES FOR THE UNITED STATES NOTAM SYSTEM.

    013 DCC 01/11/23 NOTAM SYSTEM EQUIPMENT OUTAGE_FYI 01/11/23 04:18
        THE UNITED STATES NOTAM SYSTEM FAILED AT 2028Z.  SINCE THEN NO NEW
        NOTAMS OR AMENDMENTS HAVE BEEN PROCESSED.  TECHNICIANS ARE CURRENTLY
        WORKING TO RESTORE THE SYSTEM AND THERE IS NO ESTIMATE FOR
        RESTORATION OF SERVICE AT THIS TIME.

    014 DCC 01/11/23 NOTAM OUTAGE HOTLINE_FYI 01/11/23 04:19
        HE NOTAM OUTAGE HOTLINE IS BEING ACTIVATED TO ADDRESS THE EQUIPMENT
        OUTAGE ISSUES...

    015 DCC 01/11/23 NOTAM OUTAGE HOTLINE_FYI 01/11/23 07:42
        THE NOTAM OUTAGE HOTLINE IS BEING ACTIVATED TO ADDRESS THE
        EQUIPMENT...

    016 DCC 01/11/23 NOTAM SYSTEM EQUIPMENT OUTAGE_FYI 01/11/23 07:44
        THE UNITED STATES NOTAM SYSTEM FAILED AT 2028Z.  TECHNICIANS ARE
        CURRENTLY WORKING TO RESTORE THE SYSTEM AND THERE IS NO ESTIMATE FOR
        RESTORATION OF SERVICE AT THIS TIME. THERE IS CURRENTLY A HOTLINE IN
        EFFECT WHICH HAS NAIMES/FAA FACILITIES/STAKEHOLDERS IN ATTENDANCE.

    020 DCC 01/11/23 NOTAM OUTAGE HOTLINE_FYI 01/11/23 10:58
        THE NOTAM OUTAGE HOTLINE IS BEING ACTIVATED...

    030 DCC 01/11/23 NOTAM OUTAGE HOTLINE_FYI 01/11/23 12:37
        THE NOTAM OUTAGE HOTLINE HAS BEEN TERMINATED.
In short, the terminology being used so far is "equipment failure".

[1] 1/11/2023 link to the day's messages w/ index numbering for each one per my above quotes" https://www.fly.faa.gov/adv/adv_list.jsp?WhichAdvisories=ATC...

Re: FAA NOTAM System Outage

#125

Post by [deleted] »

unionemployee wrote: post #95
quantified wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What embarrasses you about it, esp compared with more modern systems? This seems like the kind of critical infrastructure whose uptime requirements can make upgrading challenging once in place.

Others have said it better. If you google 'notams are broken', numerous results will show up explaining various problems with the NOTAM system. Edit: Here's a good one - https://fixingnotams.org/ending-notam-nonsense-in-the-digita... A general inefficiency example using two airpots I often have in mind: IAH and JFK. In IAH, traffic is spaced out in cruise well before the arrival begins, where they're burning much les…

[deleted]

Re: FAA NOTAM System Outage

#127

Post by zitterbewegung »

ineedasername wrote: post #124

I'm surprised there's not more activity on this here on HN. I guess info is limited, so I found what I could from ATCSCC notices for today [1]. These are all the notices but portions only w/ redundant bits removed. See link in citation if you want full messages. Times here appear to be GMT: 004 DCC 01/11/23 NOTAM OUTAGE HOTLINE_FYI 01/11/23 00:47 THE NOTAM OUTAGE HOTLINE IS BEING ACTIVATED TO ADDRESS THE EQUIPMENT OU…

Probably because it’s not about a package manager , a social network, Cloud Service and a chat application.

Re: FAA NOTAM System Outage

#128

Post by ineedasername »

ineedasername wrote: post #124

I'm surprised there's not more activity on this here on HN. I guess info is limited, so I found what I could from ATCSCC notices for today [1]. These are all the notices but portions only w/ redundant bits removed. See link in citation if you want full messages. Times here appear to be GMT: 004 DCC 01/11/23 NOTAM OUTAGE HOTLINE_FYI 01/11/23 00:47 THE NOTAM OUTAGE HOTLINE IS BEING ACTIVATED TO ADDRESS THE EQUIPMENT OU…

I wanted to keep my above comment to the data only, so I'll post this here: "Equipment Failure" can cover just about anything. I think the "gut" reaction the public might have here when hearing that phrase is that it was physical equipment, but really it could have been software, network linkages, really anything. I hope the real cause here doesn't get buried somewhere in lack of follow up.

Also I really wish I'd been awake when the hotline was active (# was in the full notices linked) so I could call in and see what they were talking about as a silent observer. I can't tell from the context if that was a general status hotline, a failover service to provide the same data NOTAM would have done (though if that were the case then grounding flights wouldn't have been necessary) [1] or discussion of the actual problem and specific efforts to resolve.

[1] Well, only if it was a more benign & limited cause that wouldn't be expected to spill over into other systems. If the nature of the problem included the possibility of a malign actor then other vectors of attacks would not have been (and maybe still aren't, if that was the source) off the table.

Re: FAA NOTAM System Outage

#129

Post by psim1 »

briandear wrote: post #105
VLM wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its a flight planning mystery. Lets say you are not flying to, but flying by, my hometown airport. You decide arbitrarily to use it as a divert in case of awful weather or engine trouble enroute or you just want a bathroom break (this is more of a Cessna 172 airport than a 747 airport) I found a cached list of nine current NOTAMs for my home airport. Because its always better to overinform than to underinform, until…

Nailed it exactly. Also be advised that birds are in the vicinity of the airport.

One of our local muni airports adjacent woods always has a NOTAM advising of potential for deer on the runway.
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