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FAA NOTAM System Outage

fly.faa.gov

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Re: FAA NOTAM System Outage

#81

Post by p_l »

testplzignore wrote: post #17

If I'm understanding the situation correctly: the system stopped processing updates yesterday afternoon and it wasn't a big deal, then they tried restarting it this morning to fix it and it didn't come back up, so now older NOTAMs from before the issue started are not available. Is that right? Do airlines/planes keep a cached copy of these? How large is the NOTAM database?

The problem isn't keeping a copy, it's sending updates that are very time critical (for example restricted areas around POTUS, any impactful event, etc.)

Re: FAA NOTAM System Outage

#82

Post by sokoloff »

VLM wrote: post #60
nkcmr wrote: post #47

Why do all aviation IT systems feel like they are so fragile? It feels like not a single month can pass these days without some "Airline X has major outage and ruins tons of people's days!" story on the news. What is the tech behind these frail systems?

All hyper optimized systems become fragile until they collapse. The NOTAM system is ridiculous, no surprise it collapsed ... you can lose your ticket for flying thru a MOA that went active AFTER you took off. What could possibly go wrong with a "push" notification system for every tiny little detail of aerospace scheduling? No force is as destructive as the good idea fairy.

I'm not sure your specific example is a particularly good one. I can legally fly through an MOA that's active, without needing ATC or military authorization.

Re: FAA NOTAM System Outage

#83

Post by quantified »

unionemployee wrote: post #63

The NOTAM system is embarrassing. This just tops it off. Actually, our whole ATC system and the way the FAA operates is embarrassing. It all works kind of like waste management in NYC. If they were to add new tech and efficiency, fewer people would have jobs, so we keep doing it the old way to the detriment of everyone else.

What embarrasses you about it, esp compared with more modern systems?

This seems like the kind of critical infrastructure whose uptime requirements can make upgrading challenging once in place.

Re: FAA NOTAM System Outage

#84

Post by p_l »

ceejayoz wrote: post #41
dx034 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is, how will ATC know? I'm not that familiar with their systems, but maybe they rely on them to get critical information?

ATC will be fine to get everyone on the ground safely. There are procedures for everything including ATC itself being down.

ATC can get them back down, but no new flights should start.

Re: FAA NOTAM System Outage

#85

Post by sokoloff »

dx034 wrote: post #46
ceejayoz wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ATC will be fine to get everyone on the ground safely. There are procedures for everything including ATC itself being down.

I never doubted that. The question is if they could've worked without a ground stop by having ATC give them all info.

If I print the NOTAMs for a 600nm flight, they're going to typically go 4+ pages of NOTAMs that are fairly specific to my flight (just for departure, along route, and destination airports) and 15+ pages if I print all available NOTAMs in a fairly small font.

Re: FAA NOTAM System Outage

#86

Post by yuppie_scum »

VLM wrote: post #60
nkcmr wrote: post #47

Why do all aviation IT systems feel like they are so fragile? It feels like not a single month can pass these days without some "Airline X has major outage and ruins tons of people's days!" story on the news. What is the tech behind these frail systems?

All hyper optimized systems become fragile until they collapse. The NOTAM system is ridiculous, no surprise it collapsed ... you can lose your ticket for flying thru a MOA that went active AFTER you took off. What could possibly go wrong with a "push" notification system for every tiny little detail of aerospace scheduling? No force is as destructive as the good idea fairy.

They need Kafka

Re: FAA NOTAM System Outage

#88

Post by joshuahedlund »

dx034 wrote: post #54
nkcmr wrote: post #47

Why do all aviation IT systems feel like they are so fragile? It feels like not a single month can pass these days without some "Airline X has major outage and ruins tons of people's days!" story on the news. What is the tech behind these frail systems?

More modern systems are also down once in a while. With aviation it's just more visible because one system can affect a lot of people. I'm not sure when ATC systems (which I would count NOTAM to be one of) have last failed, I always had the feeling they're very stable. It's usually airlines that struggle with their applications.

I never know how well it applies but headline outages always make me think of that “The Coming Software Apocalypse” Atlantic article from a few years back[0]

[0] https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/09/savin...

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