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Moderna CEO: 400% price hike on Covid vaccine “consistent with the value”

arstechnica.com

41–50 of 55 posts

Re: Moderna CEO: 400% price hike on Covid vaccine “consistent with the value”

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my country, many of the state-controlled public services (e.g., electricity, water and sewage) are very expensive due to mismanagement. Others, like public healthcare are mediocre (don't scale well), albeit costly. Many of these entities suffer from being exposed to political influence.

This being the crux of the problem. Obtaining the benefit of state owned/controlled operations for such things without allowing them to be ruined by constant political interference in sync with the routine electoral cycles. A public health system or sewage or electricity is a multi decade resource of benefit to several generations of citizens… but politicians tend to think about the next election not their old age an…

Depends on the state, sort of like the quality of private companies vary and if you’ve ever lived in a part of you’re own country where the grocery stores are crap and later you move and their very competitive and a comparative delight. However, one has to experience the difference themselves to understand this fact I believe. There are a huge multitude of factors at play.

Many of us (me included for most of my life, hell maybe I’m doing it now), tend to over extrapolate how much our own experience is the experience everywhere and that what we see must be fitting some logical rule or trend. Reality is annoyingly more complex than we like.

Re: Moderna CEO: 400% price hike on Covid vaccine “consistent with the value”

#42

This is why vaccine development and pharmaceuticals in general should be a public good, owned by the public sector, priced as a public good.

Why don’t any governments get in that business then? They could distribute it locally but sell the vaccines and pharmaceuticals they develop to foreign countries and make a bunch of profit.

Lol. Because there's hardly any socialist government out there. Basically the same kind of guys that are running these corps are editing all these globalization and privatization international treaties.

Re: Moderna CEO: 400% price hike on Covid vaccine “consistent with the value”

#43

This is why vaccine development and pharmaceuticals in general should be a public good, owned by the public sector, priced as a public good.

Can we say the same thing about social media companies ? I would also suggest that 'owned by public sector' does not mean 'public good'. Even when a private corporation influenced/directed/controlled by federal authorities -- it is problematic. I do not know of a political system that can effectively check federal government so that it stays for public good. Money-sponsored or various threatened-by-force election mod…

> 'owned by public sector' does not mean 'public good' What does mean public good then?

I believe you're misreading GP's comment and playing on words. "owned by public sector" doesn't have to mean "being run by people elected through general elections". You seem to refer to federal government so probably you're referring to US government and how your opinion is that it is inherently bad. That's another debate i don't have anything to say on (not US myself) and i believe you have a bigger problem if you don't trust your government. Now tons of "public sector" enterprises can well enough be run in relatively closed loop. The solution is quite easy: have dedicated taxes for dedicated such enterprises, instead of all the taxes going into a general budget at the hand of general politics. This is how public healthcare, pension or stuff like water used to work in eg france, before it started to get teared into pieces. They are self-funded basically by people paying for the service, but since we have realized basically everyone needs it, paying is mandatory, and the amount you pay is proportional to your salary: the so-called salary-contributions and company-contributions.

Re: Moderna CEO: 400% price hike on Covid vaccine “consistent with the value”

#45
Reminder that these vaccines were large majority tax-payer funded, and both Moderna and Pfizer have legal immunity to any ill effects caused by the vaccine [1]

They are legally immune to being sued due to damages caused by the vaccine. In developing the vaccine, they also somehow got vaccinated against our legal system.

This should have come with strict pricing rules and other strings in order to receive its benefits. Instead, if you are working on problems relating to certain contagions, you too can be liability immune — but just until 2024 after Moderna and Pfizer have both made absurd amounts of money and paid back the politicians who made it happen. It is laughable policy only a very short sighted population and leadership would think is smart.

That price will keep hiking and now we have super-powered organizations highly incentivized for plagues only they can cure. I’m sure they will leave billions / trillions on the table and be benevolent about this.

[1] https://aspr.hhs.gov/legal/PREPact/Pages/default.aspx

Re: Moderna CEO: 400% price hike on Covid vaccine “consistent with the value”

#47

This is why vaccine development and pharmaceuticals in general should be a public good, owned by the public sector, priced as a public good.

Can we say the same thing about social media companies ? I would also suggest that 'owned by public sector' does not mean 'public good'. Even when a private corporation influenced/directed/controlled by federal authorities -- it is problematic. I do not know of a political system that can effectively check federal government so that it stays for public good. Money-sponsored or various threatened-by-force election mod…

>Can we say the same thing about social media companies ?

Good god no. One of the benefits of the Twitter-Musk saga is that it proved that the feds really were meddling quite a bit with social media companies requesting censorship. You want to give them the keys entirely?

Re: Moderna CEO: 400% price hike on Covid vaccine “consistent with the value”

#48

This is why vaccine development and pharmaceuticals in general should be a public good, owned by the public sector, priced as a public good.

Vaccine and pharmaceuticals research are already mostly publicly funded. But the profits are privatized.

* Oxford/AstraZeneca Covid vaccine research ‘was 97% publicly funded’: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/apr/15/oxfordastraz...

* (US Specific) Most New Molecular Entities (NME) approved by the FDA are derived from public research (I dont know exact numbers)

Re: Moderna CEO: 400% price hike on Covid vaccine “consistent with the value”

#49
I bet that we have reached close to maximum saturation of folks getting boosted. Less and less people will be getting these shots, but since they have a taste for the money that was pouring in, they can jack up the price to make up for lack of sales.

Re: Moderna CEO: 400% price hike on Covid vaccine “consistent with the value”

#50
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lol what? the Covid vaccines were funded by the US goverment (and others).

As customers of the vaccine to deliver to their citizenry. You might as well say Microsoft is funded by the US government (and others) because they buy Windows and Office licenses: technically true and also misleading because it’s revenue for a product they sold them for a profit. Those profits fund further R&D into new products, some of which will be sold on the private market and some of which will be sold to gover…

Your analogy doesn't hold up. Initial R&D of Covid vaccines was largely funded by taxpayers in addition to advance purchase guarantees and limitation of legal liability to eliminate any risk whatsoever. After the public assumed any and all risk, profits are now going in private pockets. Your analogy is misleading and dishonest.

> Since 2006, Congress has appropriated hundreds of millions of dollars that BARDA used to develop the scientific infrastructure to produce vaccines in response to the threat of pandemic flu. Thus, the basic research undergirding the COVID-19 vaccines was largely publicly supported.

> Recent estimates indicate that the government spent more than $900 million dollars supporting non-clinical studies and research to accelerate movement of candidate vaccines into clinical trials at companies such as Johnson and Johnson, Sanofi, Merck, and Moderna.

> Johnson and Johnson, Moderna, Sanofi, and AstraZeneca together are estimated to have received more than $2.7 billion from the federal government to cover expenses related to human trials. The bulk of money was directed at Phase III trials, which compare new treatments against standard care and where most human test costs are incurred.

https://www.healthaffairs.org/do/10.1377/forefront.20210512....

https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/after-nearly-1b-research...

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