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Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

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Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#181

Post by akmarinov »

trompetenaccoun wrote: post #128
_the_inflator wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has changed. Starting 2023 130km/h. Source: https://www.heise.de/news/Hochautomatisiertes-Fahren-bis-130...

Oh Germany. Cannabis legalization and everything else: "We need to study the potential effects for 20 years to be absolutely sure it's safe." Allowing Mercedes let cars drive 130km/h on their own: "Seems about fine, signed." Not complaining about the lack of bureaucracy in this case but it is crazy how fast they got the initial law change passed and now they've even updated the speed to 130, even though no car is cap…

It's almost like the automotive industry has a huge influence over legislation

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#182

Post by tialaramex »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #129
judge2020 wrote: post #23

For reference, level 3 is not exactly well-defined; the main requirements for level 3 over a level 2 system are[0][1]: - OEDR is required, which is "monitoring the driving environment (detecting, recognizing, and classifying objects and events and preparing to respond as needed) and executing an appropriate response to such objects and events (i.e., as needed to complete the DDT and/or DDT fallback [fallback to drive…

I look at level 2 through level 4 as a spectrum of how much warning a driver gets before they have to take over. Level 2 is 0 seconds; the driver has to watch constantly. Level 4 is indefinite, or alternatively we could say "minutes". The car can pull over if necessary. For this particular level 3 system, it's 10 seconds. That seems pretty reasonable for level 3. And as you said, the ODD of levels 3 and 4 is entirely…

Even your Level 5 domain is dubious as I've written before. Jim would drive in a blizzard, some Level 5 car refuses to drive in a blizzard. Is the car faulty by this definition or is Jim a lunatic ? I think it's probably Jim.

I think Level 4 is clearer because it's closer to public transit. Somebody else (the machine) is driving, so if I'm day dreaming, or indeed asleep, nothing bad happens. I can listen to tunes, have an argument with someone, breast feed a baby, whatever, the driver is driving the car, I'm just a passenger.

As I understand it, there's no reason you'd need a Driving License to ride in a Waymo for example. Waymo is driving, you're in the back like a cab, why would you need a license?

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#183

Post by tromp »

dgudkov wrote: post #170
Toumassa wrote: post #119

Very cool, still dont understand why electric cars got to be ugly ... The design is more like Prius than S-class.. Sorry for being off topic.

The new Prius (2023) is anything but ugly.

Granted it looks great. But unfortunately it had to sacrifice somce aerodynamics for it. The outgoing model had a Cd of 0.24, while the new model has 0.27.

I was all excited about replacing my 2007 Prius with the new one, but now I'm not so sure. Perhaps I'll wait for the Lightyear 2 which is hugely more slippery at a Cd of 0.175.

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#185

Post by akmarinov »

slavik81 wrote: post #104
rsync wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can't handle mode switching in this manner. If you are responsible for two tons of metal flying down the road at 70 mph you need to be fully engaged in that task. We can handle being passengers and we can handle being drivers but we can't switch in a split second. So my contention is that level-X where X is less than "I can fall asleep in the back seat" is a deadly valley between unassisted driving and passive pas…

> If you are responsible for two tons of metal flying down the road at 70 mph The Mercedes system has a top speed of 40 mph. > We can handle being passengers and we can handle being drivers but we can't switch in a split second. That's why there is a 10 second handover. If the human fails to take control of the vehicle during the handover, the vehicle will slow to a stop.

> The Mercedes system has a top speed of 40 mph.

That's up to 130 km/h starting 2023

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#186

Post by atombender »

Toumassa wrote: post #119

Very cool, still dont understand why electric cars got to be ugly ... The design is more like Prius than S-class.. Sorry for being off topic.

The photos in that article might not be of a real chassis design. If you look at the recent test drives of actual cars in the US, e.g. here [1] or [2], the design is a more conventional S-class type.

The prototype design looks much more sleek to me, but I'm not a car guy, and I think all modern cars are ugly.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMNnOosjrBo

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzcR8RaC3-g

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#187

Post by akmarinov »

rsync wrote: post #92
jupp0r wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the definition of level 3 that you don't have to do this? Is your point that the claim of level 3 readiness is false or that all autonomous driving is somehow inferior to non autonomous driving?

We can't handle mode switching in this manner. If you are responsible for two tons of metal flying down the road at 70 mph you need to be fully engaged in that task. We can handle being passengers and we can handle being drivers but we can't switch in a split second. So my contention is that level-X where X is less than "I can fall asleep in the back seat" is a deadly valley between unassisted driving and passive pas…

> If you are responsible for two tons of metal flying down the road at 70 mph

That's the thing - you're not. Once engaged, Mercedes takes liability, so you're no longer responsible.

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#189

Post by [deleted] »

tromp wrote: post #183
dgudkov wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The new Prius (2023) is anything but ugly.

Granted it looks great. But unfortunately it had to sacrifice somce aerodynamics for it. The outgoing model had a Cd of 0.24, while the new model has 0.27. I was all excited about replacing my 2007 Prius with the new one, but now I'm not so sure. Perhaps I'll wait for the Lightyear 2 which is hugely more slippery at a Cd of 0.175.

[deleted]

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#190

Post by mcherm »

michaelteter wrote: post #120
winrid wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We need smart roads more than smart cars. Ah yes, trains. :)

There's such an (exciting!) opportunity for us to create automated people mover systems that connect small and large systems to get people from very close to A to very close to B. The design and engineering activities involved in solving this would be very enjoyable work, and the human benefits when (eventually) operational would be huge. Every solution would need to be custom for its city/region, but one of the comm…

So, basically this: https://classicsofsciencefiction.com/2022/11/27/the-roads-mu...

(Or https://archive.org/details/isbn_9780739410516 if you want to actually read it.)

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