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Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

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Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#151

Very cool, still dont understand why electric cars got to be ugly ... The design is more like Prius than S-class.. Sorry for being off topic.

Electric cars struggle with range limitations (compared to their non-electric counterparts), and so manufacturers try to maximise range by reducing the drag co-efficient as much as possible, even at the cost of aesthetics (everything turns into a smooth blob).

And by avoiding other energy intensive components like radar. And hiding other energy intensive appliances behind paywalls (seat heating, heating, etc.). Its basically gaming the metrics taken to a new extreme, but if you want to treat a evehicle like a normal combustion vehicle in winter, you basically can half the range.

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#152
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some reason, a large part of HN users seem to hate every fundamentally new technology. It seems the majority here thinks the next 20 years will be like the last 20 years, with only minor, gradial improvements. And every idea of a bigger shift is a scam. I have yet to see a good explanation of this. Maybe this is the case on every forum, simply because that is the prevailing attitude among people in general? Durin…

Because a lot of people here are very pessimistic ("this won't work/it's not viable/it's fake/etc"), and whenever there's actual progress that contradicts their previous predictions, they try to save face, move goal posts, etc because obviously they couldn't have misjudged the technology. To be fair I don't think this particular "L3" is groundbreaking but what I said still applies.

You have to be, working in self-driving I know for a fact a lot of "shortcuts" were used in a lot of places. For example, using LiDAR data, map data, overfitting on a short section of road to make it seem the solution is universal when it's just "hardwired". I wouldn't necessarily call it fake, but it was unsustainable and sometimes oversold.

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#153

So how does this compare with Tesla? Is what I’d want to know. These levels maybe ok for engineers . Consumers like me watch YouTube videos to tell how good a car is at self driving

Much better than what Tesla offers since you can read a book, watch a movie, etc. Basically you don't have to pay attention. And Mercedes might be taking on legal liability for the system. They do that in Germany, not sure if they're doing that in the US.

Yes, as a manufacturer they (and everyone else in the chain of commerce) have strict liability for damages caused by product defects in the US, even with the US’s comparatively weak consumer protection laws.

I’d be surprised if that wasn’t the case in Germany, independent of any decision Mercedes would make beyond the one to make and sell the car.

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#154
post #87

Please, please drive your car. More than zero hands should be on the wheel and your eyes should be on the road. If you can't be bothered to do this, perhaps find another mode of transport.

Do self-driving cars count as "another mode of transport"?

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#155
post #89
post #87

Please, please drive your car. More than zero hands should be on the wheel and your eyes should be on the road. If you can't be bothered to do this, perhaps find another mode of transport.

Isn't the definition of level 3 that you don't have to do this? Is your point that the claim of level 3 readiness is false or that all autonomous driving is somehow inferior to non autonomous driving?

If you work with technology, you don't trust technology.

Like IBM said back in the 70s; A computer can never be held accountable, therefore a computer must never make a management decision.

Well you're letting it make decisions for you in a 2 ton murder weapon.

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#156
post #121
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same, I don't see it happening unless most cars in the road have the capabality of intercommunication to perform sensor fusion with other cars. This implies that everyone gets on board using the same protocol. As for smart roads, what would these imply? Bear in mind maintenance costs and the fact that asphalt is 100% recycled and reusable.

Maybe something as simple as an active RF emitter in the reflective or similar spikes added to the road surface. It wouldn't require a networked infrastructure, or complex standards. Just something capable of penetrating feet of snow or inches of dirt and grime. The car would always have other sensors to fallback on, but this would reduce the amount of time that the DDT disengages due to inclement weather or other ro…

I don't think adding RF emitters / magnets to the road surface actually solves any problems. A driver needs to know the trajectory of the road several seconds into the future. At useful speeds, that's on the order of 100 meters. Either you dynamically generate a map in a local reference frame, or you localize within a static map in a global reference frame. RF beacons won't provide enough resolution to be useful for dynamic mapping beyond a couple of meters. RF beacons may incrementally help with localization within a global map by providing additional observations for a localization filter, but no one doing global mapping is asking for that since they're already using lidar to do it.

I think useful "smart" road infrastructure would necessarily be horribly complicated, since the point of it would be to offload otherwise necessary complexity from the vehicles using the road. Perhaps the road could track the real time kinematics of all the cars on the the road using some combination of cameras, lidar, UWB, etc. It could then communicate that information via RF to the vehicles that want to receive it, along with local mapping information.

The automotive industry has been excited about "vehicle-to-vehicle" comms for the past 15 years aka V2V. Technically, all the standards that have emerged from the industry's efforts seem lame and nothing interesting has come of it. The FCC granted a chunk of 5Ghz spectrum for automotive DSRC use, and have subsequently taken back most of it for lack of use. It's still allocated for automotive, but it's now in the hands of the cell modem providers to do something useful with it.

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#157
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some reason, a large part of HN users seem to hate every fundamentally new technology. It seems the majority here thinks the next 20 years will be like the last 20 years, with only minor, gradial improvements. And every idea of a bigger shift is a scam. I have yet to see a good explanation of this. Maybe this is the case on every forum, simply because that is the prevailing attitude among people in general? Durin…

Maybe I'm picking wrong examples, but lately almost every "distruptor" company or tech either turned to be an outright scam or a net negative social outcome.

The world with Uber is much better than the world we had before Uber.

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#158
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some reason, a large part of HN users seem to hate every fundamentally new technology. It seems the majority here thinks the next 20 years will be like the last 20 years, with only minor, gradial improvements. And every idea of a bigger shift is a scam. I have yet to see a good explanation of this. Maybe this is the case on every forum, simply because that is the prevailing attitude among people in general? Durin…

> It seems the majority here thinks the next 20 years will be like the last 20 years, with only minor, gradial improvements. And every idea of a bigger shift is a scam. More like the last 200 years will be like the last 200 years. When has there been some truly "giant shift" that swept the world in less than a decade? The automobile we know today was an outgrowth of the decades of developments of steam engines to far…

I said "20 years", not "less than a decade".

   When has there been some truly "giant shift" 
Some examples:

    Cars replaced horses.
    Email replaced letters.
    Phones replaced desktops.
    Phones replaced cameras.
    Websites replaced newspapers, TV and radio.

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has changed. Starting 2023 130km/h. Source: https://www.heise.de/news/Hochautomatisiertes-Fahren-bis-130...

Oh Germany. Cannabis legalization and everything else: "We need to study the potential effects for 20 years to be absolutely sure it's safe." Allowing Mercedes let cars drive 130km/h on their own: "Seems about fine, signed." Not complaining about the lack of bureaucracy in this case but it is crazy how fast they got the initial law change passed and now they've even updated the speed to 130, even though no car is cap…

One of those things is a social issue and the other is an economic issue. Germany leans conservative on one and liberal on the other.

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has changed. Starting 2023 130km/h. Source: https://www.heise.de/news/Hochautomatisiertes-Fahren-bis-130...

Oh Germany. Cannabis legalization and everything else: "We need to study the potential effects for 20 years to be absolutely sure it's safe." Allowing Mercedes let cars drive 130km/h on their own: "Seems about fine, signed." Not complaining about the lack of bureaucracy in this case but it is crazy how fast they got the initial law change passed and now they've even updated the speed to 130, even though no car is cap…

I am guessing the State of California is sitting locked and loaded waiting to sign this off as well.
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