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Secondments at Zapier

zapier.com

11–20 of 55 posts

Re: Secondments at Zapier

#11
I would love to hear about people at Zapier talking about this process -- it sounds delightful. Many companies have a really rough internal transfer process and being able to try out or go into a new role sounds like a really good fit.

I've also seen other things that a company puts out that makes it sound delightful (Patreon layoffs, Netflix culture) but talking to people internally gets a very different opinion.

Re: Secondments at Zapier

#12
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not know but in my companies I do adjust it. How much depends on how large of a change there is.

Is there really a difference between firing someone and reassigning them with (let’s be real here) a (probably substantial) pay cut? Certainly most unemployment agencies would consider that constructive dismissal

In some countries the laws are such that it is very hard to give someone a pay cut (Sweden, for example). It can be done, but a big challenge.

IMO, I think a lot of employers that I have worked with really undervalued how expensive it is to hire someone.

Another option is a company like Daily has a transparent, years-of-experience based, pay structure. So if you switch to a new role, it is clear how your compensation will change:

https://www.daily.co/blog/rethinking-levels-promotions-and-s...

Re: Secondments at Zapier

#13
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not know but in my companies I do adjust it. How much depends on how large of a change there is.

Is there really a difference between firing someone and reassigning them with (let’s be real here) a (probably substantial) pay cut? Certainly most unemployment agencies would consider that constructive dismissal

Even the suggestion could also be humiliating for the employee. And if accepted, a demotion on the resume isn’t ideal.

Sure, a new role with less responsibility and less pay could work, but that doesn’t mean it’s in the best interest of both parties.

I could see a horizontal change being effective, but not a demotion.

Re: Secondments at Zapier

#14
post #7

Yes Richard Branson does this and I learnt it from one of his videos. You never fire. You move them around. If they are a good person who is honest and hard working, you can find a job for them.

I saw a fraction of an episode of Richard Branson’s “The Apprentice” and was struck by the fact that (unlike a different host of the US The Apprentice) he considered the act of firing someone very painful. It was an existence proof that billionaires do not have to be heartless psychopaths - even though media consistently gives us this impression. And - predictably - his version of the show did not rate very well, and…

One lesson from Branson’s Apprentice that always stuck with me:

He was hoisted up in a capsule with different contestants above Angel Falls. Branson encouraged the contestants to abandon their fears and press a button that would release the cables and send the capsule plunging to the water below. Whoever pressed the button was kicked off the show. The drop was high enough to kill them both and Branson said he couldn’t afford to have people around him that were afraid to tell him no.

Re: Secondments at Zapier

#15
good to finally see that someone's first instinct during the difficult times, are not to fire immediately but maybe slow a bit and think about how we can work with what we have + don't hire the excessive number of ppl when the money is good only to later let them go

Re: Secondments at Zapier

#16
Nice approach. However, my main take-away from the article is that they have 40 recruiters for a company of 800, which seems high. I know a company expecting growth is going to need more recruiters, but still 20:1 feels excessive. Is there a widley-known ratio which is sufficient to make regular turnover of staff manageable?

Re: Secondments at Zapier

#17
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not know but in my companies I do adjust it. How much depends on how large of a change there is.

Is there really a difference between firing someone and reassigning them with (let’s be real here) a (probably substantial) pay cut? Certainly most unemployment agencies would consider that constructive dismissal

The four times I've been seconded over the last 20 years it has always been to "act up" and come with a temporary pay bump. Usually because I'm taking over a manager's job while they're on maternity leave / until a new one can be found because they've quit, or because a team could do with one of my weird skills for a few months. In my experience people either stay at the same pay or their pay goes up while on secondment. Secondment is generally supposed to be temporary so "overpaying" someone for a few months is generally worth it, especially when you consider the costs of onboarding a new employee.

Re: Secondments at Zapier

#18
post #14
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw a fraction of an episode of Richard Branson’s “The Apprentice” and was struck by the fact that (unlike a different host of the US The Apprentice) he considered the act of firing someone very painful. It was an existence proof that billionaires do not have to be heartless psychopaths - even though media consistently gives us this impression. And - predictably - his version of the show did not rate very well, and…

One lesson from Branson’s Apprentice that always stuck with me: He was hoisted up in a capsule with different contestants above Angel Falls. Branson encouraged the contestants to abandon their fears and press a button that would release the cables and send the capsule plunging to the water below. Whoever pressed the button was kicked off the show. The drop was high enough to kill them both and Branson said he couldn’…

Seems more of a TV gimmick than a test for sycophants. You know Branson does daring activities, you know you're on a TV show where the utmost care is taken by a whole team of professionals, ... it's a cheap trick.

So, instead of people who trust the proven professionals around them to do their job you get people scared of heights or averse to physical risks (who could be perfectly happy taking massive financial risks)?

Do you really think it shows anything useful?

[Where, when, which channel was this series shown, please?]

Re: Secondments at Zapier

#19
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One lesson from Branson’s Apprentice that always stuck with me: He was hoisted up in a capsule with different contestants above Angel Falls. Branson encouraged the contestants to abandon their fears and press a button that would release the cables and send the capsule plunging to the water below. Whoever pressed the button was kicked off the show. The drop was high enough to kill them both and Branson said he couldn’…

Seems more of a TV gimmick than a test for sycophants. You know Branson does daring activities, you know you're on a TV show where the utmost care is taken by a whole team of professionals, ... it's a cheap trick. So, instead of people who trust the proven professionals around them to do their job you get people scared of heights or averse to physical risks (who could be perfectly happy taking massive financial risks…

100% this, as if Branson would have been in any danger at all. That's really shitty if they genuinely kicked off contestants for that reason, if that's the correct story.

Re: Secondments at Zapier

#20
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One lesson from Branson’s Apprentice that always stuck with me: He was hoisted up in a capsule with different contestants above Angel Falls. Branson encouraged the contestants to abandon their fears and press a button that would release the cables and send the capsule plunging to the water below. Whoever pressed the button was kicked off the show. The drop was high enough to kill them both and Branson said he couldn’…

Seems more of a TV gimmick than a test for sycophants. You know Branson does daring activities, you know you're on a TV show where the utmost care is taken by a whole team of professionals, ... it's a cheap trick. So, instead of people who trust the proven professionals around them to do their job you get people scared of heights or averse to physical risks (who could be perfectly happy taking massive financial risks…

I must have seen it ~20 years ago on FOX I think.

It was certainly a “made for TV” / theatrical way of making a point. But the point stuck with me as it was pretty diametrically opposed to the other Apprentice show which rewarded people for following instructions.

Looks like it was Victoria Falls: https://youtu.be/BrA__e6s1kg

Clip starts at 4:38

> you know you're on a TV show where the utmost care is taken by a whole team of professionals

I think that’s kind of the point though, is if you’re saying you’re capable of being President of Virgin (the prize I believe), then there is little to no safety net. You are the professional in charge responsible for everyone else’s safety. If you just assume that Branson’s prepared and thought of everything already then you’re not adding the value he’s looking for. He wants people that are skeptical of every detail and proposition (even his).

But granted it’s not the actual way he’d vet for this quality. It was spiced up for TV. I just found it impactful that he valued that skeptic quality in his team.

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