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Crisis over The Atlantic: The near crash of Air Transat flight 236

admiralcloudberg.medium.com

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Re: Crisis over The Atlantic: The near crash of Air Transat flight 236

#131

Post by intrasight »

bambax wrote: post #98
iso1631 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm amazed they can measure the distance between two real non-fixed components down to a few micrometers (they wrote 0.635mm, implying somewhere between 630um and 640um) If 0.635mm (an odd number itself which happens to be exactly 1/40th of an inch, or "25 thous" in American sizes) and they let it go that sounds really odd. That's literally the size of a grain of sand. If the concern is rubbing, sure that implies it…

0.635 mm is indeed an odd number. The thickness of a piece of 80gsm paper is 0.065 mm, so maybe what is meant is "about the thickness of ten sheets of paper"...?

Who else thinks that if a tolerance of the thickness of a sheet of paper, in a mechanic/maintenance setting, could cause the death of over 300 people, that there's a striking lack of fault-tolerance in the design.

Re: Crisis over The Atlantic: The near crash of Air Transat flight 236

#132

Post by Erwin »

midasuni wrote: post #16
robga wrote: post #9

Interesting that they call Lajes a “military airfield”. On the Azorean island of Terceira, Lajes (TER) is a mixed use airfield that is the commercial landing strip of the island since the 1930s, as well as having a multi-national military base on the other side since the 1940s. There is a picture in the story. The NTSB report called it a military airbase, and other reports say “Military air traffic controllers guided…

To cross the Atlantic between NA and Europe you need to be able to travel 138 minutes from an airport, although for almost the entire area it’s 120 minutes. This is accomplished by having air strips which can take massive planes like A350s at remote places which can’t justify planes of that size normally like Newfoundland, Greenland and the Azores While these are mainly there for military and temporary emergency use,…

Gander's role in 2001 was made into a musical, and it's quite a touching and heailng piece of entertainment if you were around back then: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcI1EKE01S0 -- certainly best on stage if you can find it, but also available on Apple TV.

Re: Crisis over The Atlantic: The near crash of Air Transat flight 236

#133

Post by el-salvador »

noduerme wrote: post #34
robga wrote: post #9

Interesting that they call Lajes a “military airfield”. On the Azorean island of Terceira, Lajes (TER) is a mixed use airfield that is the commercial landing strip of the island since the 1930s, as well as having a multi-national military base on the other side since the 1940s. There is a picture in the story. The NTSB report called it a military airbase, and other reports say “Military air traffic controllers guided…

One of the coolest emergency airfields I can think of is, literally, Uruguay Route 9, along the coast of the country, where a 2-lane highway becomes an enormous runway that you continue driving along. I don't know if there were any famous landings there; I heard it's only used rarely by the Presidential jet. Here's where it is: https://goo.gl/maps/fpwxuPzGVDtDEKmB8 and what it looks like when you drive on it: https:/…

The Panamerican Road in El Salvador has an airfield like this too. It's next to a military base. I've never heard of it being used, maybe it was during the civil 80s civil war.

https://www.google.com/maps/@13.7720949,-89.3716038,3a,40y,1...

Re: Crisis over The Atlantic: The near crash of Air Transat flight 236

#134

Post by madaxe_again »

oxryly1 wrote: post #124
madaxe_again wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hah! I was driving down this route a few years back when I suddenly found myself on an airstrip along with all the other traffic. It was particularly bizarre given that I’d just driven down from tacuarembo to punta del Diablo on largely unpaved roads. That said, it’s not the first road doubling up as a landing strip I’ve found myself on - there’s a stretch of the main road between Donetsk and Mariupol that was, in so…

That’s quite a variety of locales to find yourself driving in. What took you to all those places?

Wanderlust.

Re: Crisis over The Atlantic: The near crash of Air Transat flight 236

#135

Post by quickthrower2 »

voxadam wrote: post #49
quickthrower2 wrote: post #42

I really love the straightforward but gripping style of writing here. I read every word! Which is rare for anything submitted to HN (or elsewhere for that matter)

I've been reading Admiral Cloudberg's write-ups for a few years since discovering them over on Reddit's r/CatastrophicFailure,[0] they're all truly excellent. I really enjoy his clear, no nonsense writing style. What us failure analysis nerds need, what we deserve, is a 90s era Discovery Channel show written by Cloudberg. Either that or a a United States Chemical Safety Board[1] style series. [0] https://www.reddit.c…

Thanks you made me read 2 more. And kept me up late! There is one where some safety feature highly recommended for all planes back in the 90s (I think), to identify and alert which engine failed, wont be added to 737s because you guessed it: type certification. It is fascinating and a bit scary.

Re: Crisis over The Atlantic: The near crash of Air Transat flight 236

#136

Post by smdyc1 »

In my time as an avionics tech on C-130s, it was drilled incessantly into us to never perform maintenance from memory. Always consult each step in the relevant publication and have it with you. We weren't immune, we also had ASORs (Aircraft Safety Occurrences, but nowhere near this level of seriousness) where mistakes were made because the techo did not consult the publication. We had tuffbooks that were loaded with all publications and STIs (Special Technical Instructions, similar to SBs) that should have always been carried to the aircraft and consulted during maintenance. If the SB in this case was unavailable, maintenance should have ceased until it became available. When you sign off on maintenance, you are signing off on it being completed in accordance with the publications referencing the specific section of the publication (at least, that's what we did in the Air Force).

On the driver side, my immediate thought was: How did a fuel leak in one engine cause a total loss of fuel? I would hope that there are now checklists that prioritise shutting off the cross-feed valve if a leak is suspected. Weight and balance are subordinate to the risk of running out of fuel and starving both engines.

On a side note, we would have regular "Safety Days" where incidents of ours, and major incidents like these that have happened to other aircraft were presented to the squadron (both aircrew and maintenance) in detail and discussed. Having the potential consequences in your mind at all times really helped fortify the necessity of following the correct procedures during the regular conduct of your work.

Re: Crisis over The Atlantic: The near crash of Air Transat flight 236

#137

Post by jacquesm »

smdyc1 wrote: post #136

In my time as an avionics tech on C-130s, it was drilled incessantly into us to never perform maintenance from memory. Always consult each step in the relevant publication and have it with you. We weren't immune, we also had ASORs (Aircraft Safety Occurrences, but nowhere near this level of seriousness) where mistakes were made because the techo did not consult the publication. We had tuffbooks that were loaded with…

This sort of thing is why I am a huge fan of 'Risks digest' and spend a lot of my free time reading there. How things can go wrong is a wealth of important knowledge. Unfortunately a lot of it is very hard won and written in blood and to see how little it can sometimes take to cause a major accident possibly with loss of life is a great reminder of your responsibility when designing technology.

Re: Crisis over The Atlantic: The near crash of Air Transat flight 236

#138

Post by kyleee »

LadyCailin wrote: post #75
voxadam wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been reading Admiral Cloudberg's write-ups for a few years since discovering them over on Reddit's r/CatastrophicFailure,[0] they're all truly excellent. I really enjoy his clear, no nonsense writing style. What us failure analysis nerds need, what we deserve, is a 90s era Discovery Channel show written by Cloudberg. Either that or a a United States Chemical Safety Board[1] style series. [0] https://www.reddit.c…

Not sure if you’ve heard about the podcast Cautionary Tales. It’s wonderful, especially if you like these kinds of things.

Who is the host? There are apparently a few podcasts with this title and I am confused

Re: Crisis over The Atlantic: The near crash of Air Transat flight 236

#139

Post by FabHK »

kyleee wrote: post #138
LadyCailin wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if you’ve heard about the podcast Cautionary Tales. It’s wonderful, especially if you like these kinds of things.

Who is the host? There are apparently a few podcasts with this title and I am confused

Not GP, but pretty sure they’re referring to Cautionary Tales with Tim Harford (the “Undercover Economist”), which is gripping, informative, and entertaining.

https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/cautionary-tales

Re: Crisis over The Atlantic: The near crash of Air Transat flight 236

#140

Post by pxmpxm »

Piskvorrr wrote: post #43
noduerme wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the coolest emergency airfields I can think of is, literally, Uruguay Route 9, along the coast of the country, where a 2-lane highway becomes an enormous runway that you continue driving along. I don't know if there were any famous landings there; I heard it's only used rarely by the Presidential jet. Here's where it is: https://goo.gl/maps/fpwxuPzGVDtDEKmB8 and what it looks like when you drive on it: https:/…

Not that uncommon. The Czech motorway D1 can be converted to a military airstrip here: https://www.google.com/maps/@49.3870307,15.9211894,289m/data... See where the grass divider ends, and gets replaced by a jersey barrier for 2 km? That part is the runway - it would require some hours of preparation before it would be usable, it's not quite "declare mayday and dump the plane there."

Wrong spot, I'm pretty sure youre thinking of Vyškov https://www.google.com/maps/@49.2936699,17.0223332,1311m/dat...
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