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AI-powered lawyer will be first of its kind to represent defendant in court

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Re: AI-powered lawyer will be first of its kind to represent defendant in court

#51

Post by in3d »

logifail wrote: post #45
in3d wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If poor people can only get the bot, that means the Constitution was changed. I don’t see how that could be the tech’s fault. It’s more likely that the AI would free up public defenders from things like having to answer their clients’ questions, as they could just ask the AI, allowing them to be more effective.

> It’s more likely that the AI would free up public defendants from things like having to answer their clients’ questions, as they could just ask the AI, allowing them to be more effective Public defenders would be more effective if they didn't have to talk to their clients?

Sorry, I can’t ever write clearly on the phone, this site is very mobile-unfriendly. I meant that defendants would be able to talk to the AI about their case to learn as much as they want. A public defender can’t commit that much time to each of their cases.

Re: AI-powered lawyer will be first of its kind to represent defendant in court

#52

Post by noduerme »

leobg wrote: post #5
awb wrote: post #4

> the company's AI-creation runs on a smartphone, listens to court arguments and formulates responses for the defendant. The AI lawyer tells the defendant what to say in real-time, through headphones. Based on AI’s propensity for being confidently incorrect, I’m not sure I’d want to be repeating AI output in a court of law and representing it as truth.

Isn’t that exactly the most important skill of a lawyer? /s

It absolutely is! Because isn't the nature of eyewitness memory also to be confidently incorrect?

Re: AI-powered lawyer will be first of its kind to represent defendant in court

#53

Post by bryanrasmussen »

raverbashing wrote: post #34
paxys wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. Technology is the perfect solution for problems like these. So many societal issues today arise because systems developed centuries ago cannot keep up with a population that has grown exponentially since then. Tech's core feature is being able to scale. There will be more and more systemic reliance on automation and AI as time goes on, since that's the only sensible way out.

Please let me tell how technology has scaled technical support/customer support in favour of the customer in companies like Google or Facebook?

P.G. Moneybags here - you know when I have a support issue at either of those companies regarding the billion dollar advertising campaign I am running I never have any problems getting support.

The solution seems clear - poor people just need to run billion dollar advertising campaigns to improve their support.

Re: AI-powered lawyer will be first of its kind to represent defendant in court

#54

Post by meowkit »

fasthands9 wrote: post #40
paxys wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. Technology is the perfect solution for problems like these. So many societal issues today arise because systems developed centuries ago cannot keep up with a population that has grown exponentially since then. Tech's core feature is being able to scale. There will be more and more systemic reliance on automation and AI as time goes on, since that's the only sensible way out.

While I agree that technology is the solution I disagree AI has anything to do with this. This "AI Lawyer" is about a traffic ticket. If we want to make things more fair while also enforcing the laws on the book it seems like the more straightforward tech solution is to improve traffic cameras/monitors such that tickets are given out more appropriately. Or, if it still goes to court, why not just have a system where…

Normative statements.

You should be asking what are the incentives.

> like the more straightforward tech solution is to improve traffic cameras/monitors such that tickets are given out more appropriately

This is not straightforward from a bureaucratic sense. There is no strong incentive (that I can identify - humanitarian ideals do not count) to improve the functionality here to make traffic tickets and their resolutions more sensible.

However, an AI that can resolve traffic tickets and citations might incentive a city to start gathering data more effectively - to win cases and get revenue - and that is a great incentive to improve the general tech.

> Why do we need lawyer of any type to handle something as banal as speeding tickets?

I also want to mention that this is a great point. The fact that my job provides legal insurance, the end result being I can get out of my traffic tickets by hiring a lawyer for free to show up and ask for a dismissal, is pretty dumb.

Re: AI-powered lawyer will be first of its kind to represent defendant in court

#55

Post by midoridensha »

creatonez wrote: post #47
paxys wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. Technology is the perfect solution for problems like these. So many societal issues today arise because systems developed centuries ago cannot keep up with a population that has grown exponentially since then. Tech's core feature is being able to scale. There will be more and more systemic reliance on automation and AI as time goes on, since that's the only sensible way out.

No, this is not an overpopulation problem. Surprised this needs to be said.

Yeah, that's just a dumb claim. A bigger population means more people who can become lawyers. The problem isn't population, and never was, at least for this problem: it's always been the case that justice is arbitrary and money buys better lawyers.

Re: AI-powered lawyer will be first of its kind to represent defendant in court

#56

Post by alexdoesstuff »

fasthands9 wrote: post #40
paxys wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. Technology is the perfect solution for problems like these. So many societal issues today arise because systems developed centuries ago cannot keep up with a population that has grown exponentially since then. Tech's core feature is being able to scale. There will be more and more systemic reliance on automation and AI as time goes on, since that's the only sensible way out.

While I agree that technology is the solution I disagree AI has anything to do with this. This "AI Lawyer" is about a traffic ticket. If we want to make things more fair while also enforcing the laws on the book it seems like the more straightforward tech solution is to improve traffic cameras/monitors such that tickets are given out more appropriately. Or, if it still goes to court, why not just have a system where…

This is just great press hacking by the company, jumping on the coverage ChatGPT has recently received. In essence, the company is just offering a checklist of reasons why the ticket was given by mistake but making it sound advanced and technologically impressive to a wide audience. Which seems like a perfectly fine societal use to me.

Re: AI-powered lawyer will be first of its kind to represent defendant in court

#57

Post by danuker »

threeseed wrote: post #26

No it won't since it's illegal. "At no time at any location within the courthouse may any electronic device be used to make a photograph or recording in any fashion, whether audio, video or otherwise." https://www.lawd.uscourts.gov/possession-and-use-electronic-...

Would running a speech recognition engine on-device and saving only the text constitute "recording"?

And why is it illegal anyway? If media can attend and report about a case, why can't they record?

I see Chandler v. Florida established that "a state could allow" photos and broadcast for criminal trials.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chandler_v._Florida

Re: AI-powered lawyer will be first of its kind to represent defendant in court

#58

Post by hooande »

The upside of this is that it could prevent self-represented defendants from trying to apply legal arguments or concepts in the wrong context. Pro se defendants do this all the time and it really pisses off judges. ChatGPT has a reputation for being "confidently wrong", but in my experience it's less likely to make that specific category of error.

The downside is that I hire a traffic ticket attorney because they've been handling a cases similar to mine, in the same court circuit, almost every day for years. Legal work isn't about knowing the law. It's about knowing how the system works in a particular place and time. ChatGPT was trained on many thousands of various legal cases. But it can't ever really understand how a given court works unless many people have written about that place and posted it to the internet.

I feel like it would be much better for people to just type their case into the ChatGPT prompt and ask "What argument should I use?", and then take that into the courtroom. Ask it what counter arguments to expect, what the standards of evidence are, etc. You can even prompt it with "Pretend you're a traffic court judge. How would you respond to this argument?" Essentially use it as a research tool for people who are brave or foolish enough to represent themselves. Not sure how much benefit there is in having that in the room with you.

Re: AI-powered lawyer will be first of its kind to represent defendant in court

#59

Post by vt100 »

ausbah wrote: post #6

>The ultimate goal, according to Browder, is to democratize legal representation by making it free for those who can't afford it, in some cases eliminating the need for pricey attorneys. this is the core issue I have with companies and tech like this: they try to solve social issues with technology and business. the issue of accessible defense is an issue of institutional failure that rests on the shoulders of the st…

Tesla was a "forcing function" that caused other car manufacturers to build EVs. AI lawyer technology may be the catalyst needed to trigger reform of the legal system. It's clear that up until now there has been no reform forthcoming.
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